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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

1949 F-3 dually box questions

 
  #16  
Old 05-20-2009, 09:54 AM
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Stu, sorry to hijack..........since ford went to 6 lugs in 56, could you swap the 6 lug hub/ drums onto the earlier trucks? 6 lug drop center wheels are still around.......just wondering, I have a 53 F600. T/M
 
  #17  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:46 AM
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I don't know the answer to your question but I think it's more of a challenge to find 6 bolt replacement rims than the 5 bolts so you would be compounding the difficulty. I could definitely be wrong, Stu's the wheel expert and he'll let us know if I'm full of hot air on the 6 bolt wheels.
 
  #18  
Old 05-20-2009, 11:03 AM
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Sorry, I know wheels, but I don't know hub swaps. Looking at the Chassis Manual it sure looks like it'd be a clean swap, but there could be subtle differences the diagrams don't disclose. Tinman is right that the big truck 6 lug x 8.75" bolt circle wheels are still around, in fact still sold new by Accuride. It's the 6 lug x 7.25" circle on the smaller models that are so hard to find.
 
  #19  
Old 05-20-2009, 07:17 PM
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I actually found a studebaker flatbed for sale in my area, with I'm guessing the wheels I would want. They look like the 20" variety... What are the options for the front end for a different bolt pattern so I can run normal dually wheels, like 16" later model 8 lug wheels? I was wanting to lower the truck a bit, and I don't see that happening with the huge 20" wheels and even bigger tires. I realize the steering will be a challange, but I think it would be worth it. I know the F-1s everyone subframes them to get them down, but I really like the dually look, its quite unique among the older trucks. I have seen a few rat-rod looking F series trucks around at local shows, but not one was a dually!

Thanks again for all the usefull info.

Jason
 
  #20  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:24 PM
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I'm not sure I'm following you. First we're talking 20s, then 16s? If the point of the Studebaker is to rob its wheels, you've got to know a bit more to make sure you don't screw yourself. In the 1940s Studebaker used essentially the same wheels as Ford. They are called "stud piloted", or sometimes called a standard Budd mount. In the early 1950s they switched and started using wheels made by the Motor Wheel Corporation that are called "hub piloted". They won't work on your truck. You can identify the hub piloted wheels by the lug nuts. They have a cone shaped washer behind the nut. Also, Motor Wheel rims generally have eight hand holes where Budd, K-H, or Firestone/Accuride generally have five. I'll attach cross section diagrams of each to help you see what I'm saying. The first pic is a stud piloted Budd mount, then the Motor Wheel hub piloted mount. Also I'll attach a pic of a Studebaker that's wearing Motor Wheel rims.







Now, you say you want to switch the front end to normal dually 16s with eight lug nuts. This gets back to what Bob said above. Nothing we've found cleanly allows you to bolt in a modern front axle. One member here IIRC fabricated and had machined his own components that allowed him to mount discs and everything outboard of the king pins from a later model GM product. Aside from that, I think you're left dealing with your stock axle, and brakes, and whatever replacement 5 lug Budds you can find.
 
  #21  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:49 PM
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Sorry if I wasn't a little more clear with what my intentions were... And thanks for taking the time to post all the pictures and diagrams!

I was hoping to do a hotrod/rat rod look kind of truck, with a cummins drive train. If my only option short of major modifications, or just bolting the cab to a later chassis are my only options for lowering the truck, then I'll just stick with the stock size wheels. To me, a early ford pickup body on a later chassis is just not a real vintage pickup. I want to be able to say its actually a '49 Ford! I was just thinking about all the options for tires an wheels in the 16" size, and wasn't sure how much modification we were talking. From what it sounds like, the front end is the major problem. I would like to lower it a little, but its not a deal breaker. As I said, I would like to keep it a dually, besides the whole reason for me to do a bigger truck (rather than a F-1) is that they just aren't around. It will be something different.

One thing I may have missed... Assuming you can bolt up, or with a few changes make a '72 or earlier ford rear end work, how are you mounting up the factory 5 lug wheels? Do the brake drums swap over?

Thanks again for all the info.

Jason
 
  #22  
Old 05-20-2009, 10:54 PM
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BTW, the stude I found had 5 hole wheels, its a 1950 so it may be a good canidate. Its being sold as a project, and I'm thinking I may be able to talk the guy into swapping me wheels... I'll throw him a few bucks for his trouble. Shouldn't matter much to him I wouldn't think, hes just selling it anyway, and the wheels and tires are in comparable shape, crappy!

Thanks for the tip on hub and stud piloted, that is good info that I hadn't run across.

One other question, what are you guys running for tires on the 20" wheels?

Jason
 
  #23  
Old 05-20-2009, 11:04 PM
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Stu I just reread one of your posts. I must have glazed over it before... I didn't realize the F-2 and 3s were 8 lug. That would be obviously why its easier to swap in a later axle since the bolt pattern is the same. This truck is for sure a one ton, it didn't just get dual wheels installed out back. It is 5 lug front and back.

Jason
 
  #24  
Old 05-21-2009, 07:01 AM
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What you are describing is something I've thought about doing too. What I'd do is this:

First find a rear end that will give you the gear ratio you want for driving. A Dana 60 or 70 with an eight lug pattern should be reasonably easy to find, especially since track width won't be critical on a custom bed truck. You'd just have to adjust your rear fender width to match the axle. You'd also probably have to fab your spring pads and shock mounts. To convert the 8 lug x 6.5" circle pattern to the 5 lug x 8" circle pattern of the front you'll need to have adapters made. Here's a picture of the ones than Marmon-Herrington installed on my trucks to adapt the stock rear for use of Budd rims to match the 4x4 front.



There are companies that do this. I think I've got one or two bookmarked if you need me to look them up. And I can take better pics of mine if you need a pattern.

Then, you're back where we started looking for good 5 lug rims. To lower the profile I'd use 19.5s. Another option would be to use Budd 17s like I use. They have exactly the same wheel center as a 19.5 but have the lock ring outer rim as opposed to the drop center tubeless rim of the 19.5. Here's another diagram to show the comparison of a lock ring rim vs. a tubeless drop center. The diagram compares a 20" to a 22.5", but the same comparison applies to a 17" vs. a 19.5". If you go to one of the on-line tire catalogs like maybe Universal Tire (Universal Vintage Tire) you'll see that a 7.50 x 17" tire is about the same outside diameter as an 8R19.5" tire. Also, Universal Tire is a good source of 20s to answer your above question. So, there's a few more things to think about. Stu

 
  #25  
Old 05-21-2009, 08:07 AM
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Great info, where would I find a set of the 17" wheels? I think that would do alot in terms of getting it lower compaired to running the 20" wheels. If you could point me in the direction of the adapters that would be great. I'm guessing the factory adapters like you have on your Marmon aren't growing on trees! Also, whats the advantage of using the locking style wheel compaired to the drop center tubeless type?

Jason
 
  #26  
Old 05-21-2009, 08:26 AM
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Budd 17s can be found on old Dodge based motorhomes. The same would apply to 19.5s. There was a set of 17s on a motor home at the old car place near Staunton on I-55. Whether it's still there I can't say.

You're very correct that the M-H adapters are made of "unobtainium". I've got an extra set that I'm hanging on to. I think Chuck Mantiglia probably has a set from the axle he used to fix mine, but can't say whether he'd part with them. He's at Chucks Trucks LLC., Chuck's Trucks, Chucks Trucks . The main source for having a set made that I know of is Arrowcraft. Link: Arrowcraft - Dual Wheel Conversions . I had another place saved in my Favorites too but it must be gone. The web address came up dry. Hope that helps.

I forgot to answer the question about advantages of 17s versus 19.5s. There are none. The advantage is in the 19.5 because it's a tubeless rim, and allows use of radials. The 17 would give you a more "period correct" look, but you'd also have bias ply tires. Stu
 
  #27  
Old 05-21-2009, 01:12 PM
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Jason - If Chuck has spacers and is willing to sell, you need to first make sure the center bore of them works with the hubs on whatever rear end you find. If you have to have a set made it's straight forward, but you'd not be able to use the MH ones if the hub was too big to fit inside. Stu
 
  #28  
Old 09-26-2010, 04:24 PM
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I have a 1950 F-6 COE I just bought from a guy in the USA and which is being shipped out to me in New Zealand.
I'm planning to use it as a transporter for my '59 Cadillac custom, and because of the length of the Caddie, and that I want to put a sleeper box on, I need to run tandem axles with dual wheels to keep the proportions looking right.
I want to give it a "big truck" look, so going to 22.5 wheels is my plan, and I'd like to use a seventies style Alcoa or similar aluminum wheel.
Can someone help me with some direction for this project ?
 
  #29  
Old 09-28-2010, 04:50 AM
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You've got a big project on your hands, not to mention trying to do it internationally. With everything you have planned, it seems to me in this situation you might be better off finding a long wheelbase modern truck to use as a chassis donor. That way you'd have your stretch wheelbase, you'd have your modern tandem axles with road gears, modern bolt pattern hubs that would allow you to buy off-the-shelf Alcoas instead of having custom wheels made, an engine and transmission that could handle the load, modern steering gear, modern front axle, brakes, and front hubs that could also accept the standard pattern Alcoas. Trying to morph that COE chassis into the hauler you describe sounds to me like a doomed project. Too, I don't know what the laws in NZ are like, but I'm sure that a rebodied modern truck would even pass an inspection easier. Stu
 
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Old 09-28-2010, 05:34 AM
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F-6 COE

Yeah, everyone is telling me the same thing, including that wanting to fit a hotted up flathead V8 instead of the 6 that's in it, isn't too practical ~ which annoys the hell out of me, because I've always loved the look of the flathead V8, and this was my chance to build one and put it to use in an appropriate vehicle ...

You're right though, as the flattie wouldn't have enough power to haul my '59 "El Cadillette" up our New Zealand hills on the back of the F-6, so I'll look around for something modern and just fit the F-6 cab over it, as that will also save me having to do the right hand drive conversion, as we can't have LHD commercial vehicles on the road here.

Thanks for snapping me back in to reality. Damn you.

Originally Posted by truckdog62563 View Post
You've got a big project on your hands, not to mention trying to do it internationally. With everything you have planned, it seems to me in this situation you might be better off finding a long wheelbase modern truck to use as a chassis donor. That way you'd have your stretch wheelbase, you'd have your modern tandem axles with road gears, modern bolt pattern hubs that would allow you to buy off-the-shelf Alcoas instead of having custom wheels made, an engine and transmission that could handle the load, modern steering gear, modern front axle, brakes, and front hubs that could also accept the standard pattern Alcoas. Trying to morph that COE chassis into the hauler you describe sounds to me like a doomed project. Too, I don't know what the laws in NZ are like, but I'm sure that a rebodied modern truck would even pass an inspection easier. Stu
 
 
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