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Second Battery Location in a V-10

 
  #16  
Old 02-16-2009, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by eatfish View Post
Why don't they produce energy when they are dead? The last I knew, I had to put it in there with a charger or alternator, store it as chemical energy, and retrieve it when I needed it.
Electrons move from plate grid to plate grid from - to + causing transfer of the plate material through the acid (chemical electrical production). Eventually they either corrode enough or have transferred enough material to not work as effectively eventually leading to a dead battery. The positive plate material grows and the negative shrinks creating a "dead" battery even just from sitting.

Cold climates make the positive plates shed due to contraction and expasion during discharge and recharge cycles, this creates a brown sludge at the bottom of the battery case creating a short circuit.

Hot climates promote positive plate growth, positive grid metal corrosion in the electrolyte, negative plate shrinkage, buckling of plates, and loss of water.

Another cause is addition of tap water. Not only does this stimulate corrosion of the plates, but causes lead sulphating. Calcium sulphate coats the plates and fills the pores causing less current flow resulting in a eventually "dead" battery.

Recharging a lead-acid battery is like trying to wash your hands with gloves on. When the active material in the plates can no longer sustain discharge current, the battery dies. Basically, the easiest way to put it is that if you have to charge your lead acid battery from dead, it's living on borrowed time. There is a condition inside the battery causing the discharge due to one of the above issues



 
  #17  
Old 02-16-2009, 06:10 PM
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[quote . . . .

. . . your "ramblin'" did that. It was something about diesel power, towing [/quote]

ah ha - so THAT's it. Diesel electricity isn't as strong as "gasser" electricity...see...we "gassers" have the better EX !
 
  #18  
Old 02-16-2009, 07:50 PM
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2009, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Stealther View Post
Now thats funny!!!
 
  #20  
Old 02-16-2009, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by da X-man View Post
Now thats funny!!!

REALLY, REALLY FUNNY!
 
  #21  
Old 02-16-2009, 10:37 PM
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Wow, sorry for the late reply. Anyway, Ken was right... we run alot of electronics ranging from Directv satellite and stereo system to air horns and air bags. There is a whole lot in between too. (Most of the pictures are in my gallery, I don't think I have a picture of the tracvision though) Ken, as for an upgraded alt, I have a stinger 220 amp alt that charges both batteries. All the cables have been upgraded to 0/1 guage. I just figured that there was space there and adding a second battery would take some of the strain off the first battery and the alt.

Thanks, Bryan

P.S I will get some more pictures tomorrow showing the battery installed and such.
 
  #22  
Old 02-17-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by shadowdd View Post
......, Ken was right... we run alot of electronics ranging from Directv satellite and stereo system to air horns and air bags. ...... I have a stinger 220 amp alt that charges both batteries. All the cables have been upgraded to 0/1 guage. I just figured ..... adding a second battery would take some of the strain off the first battery and the alt......
Still not clear how you could over-tax the stock alternator.

Could you enlighten us more details about your "electroncis'...? WHAT "electroncis". How many amps your electronics draw ?

How about the air horns? The systems I am familiar with use a small electric-motor-driven air compresser that pulls about 6-8 amps when running. Are your air-horns on continiously?

When you say "air bags", may I presume you are talking about a "load leveling" system, with some kind of device to "sense" changing frame elevation above the axles, and add or subtract air from the "air bags"? If so, what make air compressor does THAT have? Mine pulls less than 10 amps when it is running. Mine does not run all the time. If yours runs all the time, suggest you find out where your system's air lines have failed, and fix em.

Glad to hear you've "upped" the size of the wires - wow..220 amp. alternator ? Fantastic. You could WELD with that !

You think you "took the strain off your battery" ? Nope - let me explain. The "plate voltage" of a battery runs about 12 volts. In order to charge your battery, your alternator SHOULD be producing above 13 volts. Have you run a voltmeter at various points in your EX's electrical system to make sure everyrthing is in order. Your stock alternator is computer-controlled; even at idle it will produce enough power to keep the voltatge over 13 volts ( that is, IF it is working properly, and IF you dont have your clothes washer AND dryer on at the same time - I presume you also have a monster invertor like I have in my boat, and when that is "loaded" with ALL our electric devices ALL running at once - yes, that WOULD come close to over-loading the capacity of a bone-stock EX's alternator ).

The point is, IF you have a PROPERLY FUNCTIONING stock alternator, IT takes the "strain" of ALL of your electrical loads - the battery is just sitting there. Again, if the alternator is functioning properly, the battery is just along for the ride - its ONLY function is to provide stored electricity for electrical needs when the motor is shut off.

So - the 2nd battery IS necessary and a good idea IF you run a heavy load of electrical devices with the engine off. Good thinking.

(maybe you should trade that crummy diesel in on a gasser EX - they have much better electricity......!) (couldnt resist that) (hope at least SOME of you guys know enough about electrical systems to recognize I am just teasin about the "diesel -vs- gas" discussions...!)
 
  #23  
Old 02-17-2009, 12:01 PM
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He has a gasser. A V10 with over 220K.

I think his idea was for when the truck is off.
 
  #24  
Old 02-17-2009, 01:09 PM
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I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the alternator rating is at optimum RPMs. I don't have a specific chart for the Ford alternators, but I know that my car's 115A alternator only puts out about 35 Amps at idle.

A trick around it is to get a smaller pulley on the alternator so it spins faster at idle. The problem lies in that as the engine RPMs increase, the alternator spins even faster so you have to balance best pulley size between making sure the alternator can spin that fast (quality bearings and balancing) and the amount of acceptable output at idle.

A variable speed pulley on the alternator would be the best solution so that it maintains the optimum alternator RPMs but that adds quite an expense to the system.

But back to the original post...

Will this mod work with a stock intake? It looks like you have a boxless cone filter in your Ex. Also, did you install a battery isolator to protect against different charge levels on the batteries?

Doug
 
  #25  
Old 02-17-2009, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mohrds View Post
I

Also, did you install a battery isolator to protect against different charge levels on the batteries?

Doug
Refer to my original suggestion about installing two new identical batteries.
A battery isolator is not needed unless the loads are split and there is a chance of running one (the non-starting) down while the engine is not running.


If government is the answer, it must have been a really stupid question.
 
  #26  
Old 02-17-2009, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Monsta View Post
. . . . .

I think his idea was for when the truck is off.
= = = = = = = = = = = =

SUGGESTION ( for those who hate walking...or having to "thumb" a ride....!)

WOW - that fellow is drawing a lot of "juice" to rely on even TWO batteries - if you are correct in that he wants that kind of power drain with his EX's motor "OFF".

My recommendation in that case is to do what we do in boats and large RV's with heavy current "drains" when the engine is not running. Have a separate "dedicated" starting battery, isolated from the "main current drain".

Since he has a "gasser", it wouldnt take much of a battery to crank it over should he run his main ( what we call "house" batteries in the boating and RV trade).

This "cranking only" battery could be stuffed anywhere - are you guys aware that there are quite long skinny 12 volt batteries avail ? Most big cities have a WESTMARINE store where you can buy all kinds of stuff "
off the shelf" so that you can charge ALL the batteries ALL the time, but only "activate" your "emergency starting battery" at the flick of a switch, when necessary.

Again, assuming you are correct and his concern is to handle heavy amp. loads when his motor is off, I STRONGLY recommend that third or extra 'starting" battery - MUCH less expensive, and gives him MUCH better reliability, then relying on a single alternator.

Remember, folks - turning MECHANICAL energy into ELECTRICAL energy uses LOTS of power and generates HEAT. If he really IS drawing down batteries thru REALLY heavy electrical loads, ANY alternator is going to get pretty damn hot re-charging the lost electricity. That raises "reliability" issues.
 
  #27  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:10 PM
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here ya go.... been there done that... wrangler offroad makes a perfect fit kit for the v10 excursion and super duty trucks.
 
  #28  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 6686L View Post
(dont you diesel guys try and keep up with me when I am running "empty"...! )
You've made that assertion/challenge before, and like I responded in that other thread, "<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->You've made some ridiculous, inaccurate, inflammatory, off the wall, and extremely sarcastic comments before, but that challenge you posed to "ANY" diesel owner is downright stupid."

Stewart
 
  #29  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:47 PM
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Stewart, he really gets under your skin, eh?

I dunno...I like his posts. They keep the board entertaining.
 
  #30  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Monsta View Post
Stewart, he really gets under your skin, eh?

I dunno...I like his posts. They keep the board entertaining.
Nah, I just figure why let him get away with some of the ludicrous statements he makes, ya know?

LOL, entertaining IS one way to put it.

Stewart
 

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