I just got off the phone with the mechanic. He said that that the one bad injector may have been faulty for a long enough time to cause the HPOP to run extra hard to try to maintain pressure, therefore wearing it out. He said that the pressure would get to around 500 & flatten off when cranking. They said they put the old IPR in & it will not start at all now.

 

I think Curtis sums it up well. Funny how they will tell you the oil pressure, but not what the IPR is doing according to the scanner.

IF the HPOP was "worn from trying to keep up with a leaking injector", why didn't they tell you about this when they diagnosed the injector issue? Did you ask them how a pump suddenly fails when the truck isn't running?

I know this isn't helping you much since you're at their mercy right now, but I really am starting to wonder how these people are going about their diagnostics. Typically before you replace an HPOP, you isolate each head and check pressure to determine if you're pressure loss is coming from one of the rails. It sounds like they just saw a low number on the scanner and decided it must be the HPOP. This has me wondering if you did have a leaking injector o-ring and they guessed at which one and fixed the wrong hole. #3 or perhaps #8 injector by chance?

Are there any other shops you could take this to? Are they going to credit you for the work done on the IPR that didn't fix your problem?

 

I'm with Curtis and Chris on this one.
Long hot starts are always caused by HPOP pressure bleeding out somewhere. And I don't think it is the HPOP!
Most likely suspect is that rebuilt injector or a torn o-ring somewhere else.

 

After reading what the mechanic told you, I am now 100% positive that your dealership is full of sheit. Tow your truck out of that shop if you have to. HPOP's don't "work extra hard". They are simple piston pumps that are driven off the cam gear. They pump a specified oil volume and the actual pressure at the rails is regulated by the IPR. Whether or not an injector was actually faulty or not is irrelevant, it would not put any additional strain on the HPOP itself.

Have they still not checked the ICP sensor yet?

 

Pocket? Whether or not an injector was actually faulty or not is irrelevant, it would not put any additional strain on the HPOP itself. Pocket if the oring on the injector high pressure was leaking then is this irrelevant?

 

I second this.
Whoever heard of a piston pump working extra hard?

 

The pump puts out a set amount of psi at a set RPM, the IPR regulates how much of that pressure goes to the injector... It will not work harder or easier, it works the same all the time.

 

you said you had a injector replaced maybe they left one of the plugs loose on the oil rail under valve cover

 

Well lets not assume there isn't a leak from the orings or internal leakage shall we.I wonder if they dead headed the hpop or isolated each head to see where the leak was instead of replacing parts?

 

First off, I thank all of you for all of your knowledge. Is there a way for them to test each head individually to verify that the heads themselves will hold pressure? Can a HPOP be tested by inself? How can a HPOP go bad? The cam turns a gear which in turn pumps oil. As long as there are no broken parts in the HPOP, it will pump oil, right. I have a sneaky feeling that they have not checked ICP yet. I will at the very least be a major PIA for them with all of this info. Thanks! I had a local guy willing to pick it up & tear into it in a week but the dealer said I had to give them $485.00 first.(IPR, diagnosis & labor) Go figure!

 

Pardon me for not reading the whole thread, but if your truck is at a Ford dealer... there is a FORD procedure that they are SUPPOSED to follow that is NEARLY fool proof...

sorry for the short post, short on time.

 

When you get time, I'd appreciate it if you could let me know what that procedure is?

 

I wonder of the DA's even put oil back in the HPOP after changing the IPR. I would have a look and make dang sure they installed it correctly. If they simply put the solenion on after the spacer, it's not going to start.. I also second the ICP as a possible culprit. As far as dealers procedures being nearly foolproof, Humm? That's a new one on me.

 

It's kind of long to post in a thread. Rick posted the first part of it earlier. It comes from the Ford Service Manual, and does include isolating each head to check for leaks in the HPO system.

I would ask to speak to the manager or owner at the dealer. Explain to them that you were told a new IPR would fix the problem you brought the truck in for, and instead of fixing the problem it made it worse. Let him know you don't think it's fair they want you to pay almost $500 for someone to guess at what the problem was, when you know the service manual has test procedures to assess this type of thing. Either offer to pay for the IPR or give it back, but tell him you do not wish to pay for diagnostic labor that did not diagnose anything.

Your new mechanic should have access to the manual through alldata or something similar. If not, let us know and we'll get the info to you.

 

From swamps :

thanks to Swamps Diesel site.

How to check if my HPOP is good

There are 2 ways to measure the oil pump's performance.

If you have access to a scantool, hook it up to the trucks OBD connector, and go to the "datastream"...scroll through the sensor values, until you find ICP (or injection control pressure)...this is your HPOP's "oil pressure".

***NOTE: if you are running any kind of "box" such as the "Edge EZ" or the "Banks Six Gun" you either have to remove the aftermarket jumper harness/plug at the ICP sensor, and reconnect the factory harness by itself. If you are running a home made "10k mod", etc...which plugs/taps into the ICP sensor wires (or connector pins), you will have to remove it as well, or proceed with getting the parts together to run the mechanical gauge, as the scantool will not receive accurate data from the ICP sensor if its signal is being modified from any one of thes "ICP foolers".

To test the HPOP's output, you will be looking on the scantool for the line labeled "ICP" and it's units should be in psi not volts. Some scantools measure ICP in kPa (kilopascals) which you can convert to psi after you take your measurement in kPa.

1kpa = 0.145psi

(for example 19,310kPa = 2800 psi)

Put your chip in its' highest setting, and go out on the interstate (while having someone watch the ICP value on the datastream) and start at about 60mph...

FLOOR the pedal, and stay in it, 100% from ~60-90mph...what you're likely to see (on the scantool) is that the ICP will spike up rather quickly, to 2800-3000psi or so, and then the longer you stay in the pedal...the ICP will slowly drop and drop and drop...the ICP will eventually stabilize (stop dropping).

WHERE the ICP levels off can be some indication as to the condition of your HPOP.

If your truck can maintain 2800+psi then you are one of the FEW folks that have a terrific HPOP.

I would estimate that 90% of the Power Strokes can only maintain ~2200(+/- 200)psi of HPOP pressure, or ICP...5% are above 2600, the other 5% are below 1900psi...


depending on how low (or high) of ICP you are able to maintain will greatly affect which model of injector I would recommend.

If you don't have access to a scantool, then go to your local hydraulic supply house, and have them make you up a mechanical gauge. You might spend $60 or so on high pressure hose, fittings, and a quality 0-3500psi liquid filled gauge....but having this hose available for future diagnostics might be more valuable than you think.

The hose which you will need will need to be about 40" long, rated for (minimum) 3000psi working pressure (12k psi burst rating!) with the gauge on one end, and a #6 female JIC swivel fitting crimped onto the other.

You will also need an individual fitting to screw into the head to go from the head to the hose.

This single fitting will be a 90degree fitting # 5 "male boss" (sometimes called # 5 o-ring) on one end of the 90, and a # 6 male JIC on the other end of the 90. Our local hydraulic shop would label such a fitting as 5MB-6MJ90

"JIC" is nothing special...it's just 'hydraulic talk' for a 37degree flare fitting...standard hydraulic stuff here...nothing rare by any stretch.

Looking at the top of (either) cylinder head, you'll see the factory stainless braided oil lines (one to each head) then you'll see a few bronze colored plugs... (Engine off, of course) Using a 5/8" wrench, remove any one of the bronze plugs, and install the 90deg fitting into the hole. (save the plug for reinstallation , after testing). and the O-rings are reusable, unless brittle, cracked, etc...

The single 90deg fitting will have a "jamb nut" on the O-ring side...screw the fitting into the head, "aiming" the 90 away from the turbo, intercooler pipes, etc...and then tighten the jamb nut, to "squish" the O-ring also locking the 90 from "spinning" around as you attach the swivel end of the hose to the 90. No sealants, loctite, or teflon tape are needed on "JIC" or O-ring fittings...and don't overtighten them...usually about 180degrees with a wrench past finger tight...check for leaks prior to getting too far from home...

run the hose, away from moving parts, electrically conductive junk (like batteries, glow plug relay, starter relays, etc) ..and just route the hose up through the cowl toward the windshield...for short term testing purposes, we just lay the gauge up under a windsheild wiper, and go drive...testing it just like I describes previously...chip in the highest setting, floor the truck, etc....

If you can maintain 2800+ psi of ICP, then any injector 250cc's and under will perform exceptionally well.

If you can maintain 2400psi then that's not bad, not great either.

2200psi is mediocre, and full performance from any injector will not be achieved with that HPOP, though power WILL go up with nearly any injector, driveability (excessive smoke) might be an issue.

If you cannot maintain 1900psi, you might seriously consider an aftermarket dual HPOP system, or our Gen3 HPOP. Nearly any larger injector is going to make the truck feel sluggish, and smoke excessively.