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6.7L Power Stroke Diesel 2011-current Ford Powerstroke 6.7 L turbo diesel engine
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International V.S. Ford Built Diesels

 
  #31  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by redfire42 View Post
People keep telling me that Ford owns Cummins. Maybe this would be the best place for me to know the awnser to that qustion. I don't beleve it one bit. Someone please tell me......
Ford had 10% stock in cummins in the 90s, but they have since sold it off
 
  #32  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:46 AM
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No Ford does not own Cummins or any part of it. This is a rumor that just wont die. Check out the link for a list of stock holders/owners. A long time ago Ford bought a few shares (less than 5%) but they sold them back to Cummins a LOOOOOOONG time ago. Ford is no where in the Cummins structure and if you look at Ford's annual stock holder report, that is thicker than a websters dictionary and lists every aspect of the business, there is nothing about Cummins anywhere.
 
  #33  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:55 AM
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The Cummins Engine Company said yesterday that it had bought back 1.3 million of its common shares from the Ford Motor Company and would repurchase 1.7 million more shares on the open market. The company also said that Kenneth R. Dabrowski, a vice president at Ford, had resigned from Cummins Engine's board, as planned under a 1990 investment agreement with the auto maker. Cummins, a maker of diesel engines, said it would issue 3.75 million shares of its common stock to an employee benefits trust. The stock would be used to finance employee retirement savings programs. In New York Stock Exchange trading, Cummins Engine rose $1.25, to $46. After the purchase from Ford, Cummins has about 38.2 million shares outstanding.

From NY Times January 1997
 
  #34  
Old 01-20-2009, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Wyatt66f100 View Post
Well speaking from experience with the international engines that ford has been using i have been wondering about thier new Ford built diesel engine. I kind of came up with a theory the other day... If Ford hasn't made a genuine ford diesel engine in years and has been using International engines wont they kinda have lost touch after a while? I mean if you picture it the Ford diesel engineers have been sitting back for a while. my guess is that the 6.7 liter scorpion might be as bad or worse then the 6.0 liter engine. just a thought for you guy that are excited about the new 6.7. i dont mean to burst your bubble.
Ford has been building diesels in Europe for a long time, diesels with tech that would have Navistar engineers scratching their heads.

I have no doubts that Ford's diesel will blow anything Navistar could come up with out of the water. Simply put, Ford is a much better, much more capable company and always has been.
 
  #35  
Old 01-20-2009, 12:02 PM
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OK guys thats a good enough awnser for me.
 
  #36  
Old 01-20-2009, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by redfire42 View Post
People keep telling me that Ford owns Cummins. Maybe this would be the best place for me to know the awnser to that qustion. I don't beleve it one bit. Someone please tell me......
Slap those people when they say that, cuz its not even close to correct.
 
  #37  
Old 01-20-2009, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Bad View Post
Ford has been building diesels in Europe for a long time, diesels with tech that would have Navistar engineers scratching their heads.

I have no doubts that Ford's diesel will blow anything Navistar could come up with out of the water. Simply put, Ford is a much better, much more capable company and always has been.
Ford's overseas engines are no more complicated then the twin sequential VGT turbo common rail 6.4 with EGR and DPF. The 6.4 is one of the more complicated and high tech diesel engines. Navistar was also one of the first companies to go common rail(s) back in 1994.5. Navistar is in no way a low-tech company.
 
  #38  
Old 01-20-2009, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Bad View Post
Ford has been building diesels in Europe for a long time, diesels with tech that would have Navistar engineers scratching their heads.

I have no doubts that Ford's diesel will blow anything Navistar could come up with out of the water. Simply put, Ford is a much better, much more capable company and always has been.
Poor analogy.

Engineering and building a Diesel engine for a small commuter auto is different than engineering and building a Diesel engine for light/medium/heavy duty trucks and industrial applications.

Auto Diesels are designed for emissions and mileage. Trucks and industrial applications also require durability and strength, along with the aforementioned.
 
  #39  
Old 01-20-2009, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Bad View Post
Ford has been building diesels in Europe for a long time, diesels with tech that would have Navistar engineers scratching their heads.

I have no doubts that Ford's diesel will blow anything Navistar could come up with out of the water. Simply put, Ford is a much better, much more capable company and always has been.
I am sure International is quite capable of designing and building diesel engines.

The saying too many cooks/bean counters spoil the broth may have some application when it comes to the 6.0.
 
  #40  
Old 01-20-2009, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Lead Head View Post
Ford's overseas engines are no more complicated then the twin sequential VGT turbo common rail 6.4 with EGR and DPF. The 6.4 is one of the more complicated and high tech diesel engines. Navistar was also one of the first companies to go common rail(s) back in 1994.5. Navistar is in no way a low-tech company.
Band-aids and complications are not examples of "high-tech". FoE/Peugeot are meeting stricter emissions requirements with less compromises than Navistar's 6.4 rats nest. Hand's down.

The 2008 6.4 didn't even meet 2010 emissions standards. The Cummins does. Navistar has been a relatively "low-tech" company for some time.
 
  #41  
Old 01-20-2009, 05:08 PM
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What compromises does Navistar have on the 6.4? The Duramax only meets 07 emissions specs as well. The Cummins and Duramax also both have an EGR. Mercedes diesels, even the Puegot diesels use an EGR are as well.

I don't see how Common rail injection, or fast spooling sequential twin VGT turbos are bandaids?

ALL diesel engines in both Europe and the US need a DPF and NOx absorber. They use the exact same emissions technology as we do here, infact ours is slightly better. The current US diesel emissions are MORE strict then the Euro IV specs. I also expect our 2010 emissions to be stricter then the Euro V/VI as wel.

And the cummins meeting 2010 emissions comes at a price. MASSVIVE emissions system failures are happening with the 6.7. The first year and a half it iwas out, on the cummins forum it was just pages and pages of DPF and Turbo failure because of excessive soot and sustained high temperatures.
 
  #42  
Old 01-20-2009, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Bad View Post
Band-aids and complications are not examples of "high-tech". FoE/Peugeot are meeting stricter emissions requirements with less compromises than Navistar's 6.4 rats nest. Hand's down.

The 2008 6.4 didn't even meet 2010 emissions standards. The Cummins does. Navistar has been a relatively "low-tech" company for some time.
The 6.7 Cummins does meet the 2010 requirements, but at a de-tuned power level.
 
  #43  
Old 01-20-2009, 06:03 PM
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The 2010 compliant engine in the Dodge was a political move by Cummins to gather emissions credits to use towards their big-bore engines in 2010. Nothing more than that. The 6.4 PSD emits less NOx than required and Navistar has also been gathering credits for this.
 
  #44  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:46 AM
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6,7-litre Ford-diesel already in Aug this year!

The Scorpion will probably make itīs debute in Aug because Fords needs a proper rampup time as they will not take deliverys of the 6.4-PS from Navistar after the NewYear.
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Mexico: Job 1 for Ford's Scorpion engines now 12 months away

By John Mortimer
12 August, 2008
Source: Automotive World

The start of production for Ford's Scorpion diesel engine programmes at the Chihuahua Engine Plant is now just 12 months away.

Job 1, or the start of production (SOP) for Ford's Scorpion diesel engine programmes at the Chihuahua Engine Plant (CEP), Mexico, is now just 12 months away, having been scheduled for July 2009.
The engines, dubbed in the industry the 4467 programmes, cover the 4.4-litre V8 and the 6.7-litre V8 diesel engines, which will feature in Ford's best-selling F-Series pick-up trucks later next year.
 
  #45  
Old 01-21-2009, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by CGiron View Post
The Scorpion will probably make itīs debute in Aug because Fords needs a proper rampup time as they will not take deliverys of the 6.4-PS from Navistar after the NewYear.
-----------

Mexico: Job 1 for Ford's Scorpion engines now 12 months away

By John Mortimer
12 August, 2008
Source: Automotive World

The start of production for Ford's Scorpion diesel engine programmes at the Chihuahua Engine Plant is now just 12 months away.

Job 1, or the start of production (SOP) for Ford's Scorpion diesel engine programmes at the Chihuahua Engine Plant (CEP), Mexico, is now just 12 months away, having been scheduled for July 2009.
The engines, dubbed in the industry the 4467 programmes, cover the 4.4-litre V8 and the 6.7-litre V8 diesel engines, which will feature in Ford's best-selling F-Series pick-up trucks later next year.
Interesting includes the 4.4 v8 so is it coming as a suprise?
Or maybe also in the SD only?
 

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