I figured since we now have "The Man" here as our sponsor I would try to wrap my brain around the whole nozzle differences.

I know there have been debates on who's flow better etc. yada yada yada. I really just want to figure this out. Most people sale a larger nozzle with the stage II's. I also hear talk about different sizes in other forums.

What size is a standard stage II and what is meant by 150% nozzle or .007 nozzle.

Just some friendly questions I thought I would ask Jim since I don't quite understand this. Originally I thought there was stock and then the stage II nozzle. Now I see there are more than that.
Also what are the performance differences in these. Heat issues, HPOP issues, etc. etc. etc.

 

Well, the 150% is a flow rating. so, if you're running 150ccs, and it takes you 6 ms to get it out, then in theory, with the 150% nozzles, it would only take 4 ms...
The reason 1's dont usually need hpop upgrades and twos do is because of how fast it comes out. if it cant match the flow, it drops the pressure hard.

stage two nozzles dont atomize fuel as well, so it would run hotter than 1's in theory.

Standard disclaimer: it's almost certainly more complicated than the above.

 

phsyic wise, bigger hole means quicker fuel out.
Smaller hole means more atomization. When you force things though a small area, you'd get a wider, or more misty spray.
If you dump it out a large hole, you get more fuel in quicker, but it wont fan as much.

the .007 is a small number, so I'm going to assume that .007 is the hole size.

I imagine that there are different widths for nozzles, and thicknesses where the hole is drilled that make differences in how the fuel leaves, and how it's pressurized yada yada.

I know nothing about them, but thats the basics of holes and water, which I think we all know.

Maybe we need some stock sizes and numbers to go off from first so we can get a good idea of what is going on with this.

 

Yep, .007 is a hole size, but i dont know if which one... too lazy to scroll up lol. also is that inches or MM??? i think inches...

 

So when an injector is rated 160CC, 90 CC etc...Over what period of time are they judged? 1000cycles?100cycles?

 

I understand all this but like you said I think we need stock sizes to compare to then what size does Jim use for II's and so on.
I was curious about some of this and thought it would be a good discussion.

I believe it is 1000 cycles.
Or is it 1000 revolutions.
Heck now I can't remember. Tim knows, we talked about this not long ago.

 

I have just now finished the latest revisions on my flow bench just a few nights ago and I will be doing a lot of experimenting and learning hard data in the coming weeks.
To answer a few thoughts:
Injectors actually spit fuel in cubic millimeters. Dare I say its about impossible to catch and flow rate/balance an injector spitting such a small amount of fuel. Therefore we fire the injector 1000 shots, and this larger volume is easier to calibrate to, and is now cubic centimeters (cc's).
It's like if you were asked to measure the page thickness in a book. You measure all the pages together and divide by the number of pages, instead of actually trying to measure (guess) one page thickness with a Stanley tape measure.

Also, I just flowed a stock set of AD's. The math says they are capable of about 140cc, whereas Stage-1's are 160cc (both stock nozzles). I flowed the AD's at 3000 rpm at the highest pw possible, 4.2ms, with the oil pump cranked all the way up (dropped to 2600psi during the test) and the stock AD's flowed 140cc... I haven't done Stage-1's yet, or anything else for that matter, only got one set done with the new revisions. But I know as RPM drop, PW increases and usually nets about the same flow. And as rpm's increases, pw drops, also yields close to the same flow. So it's a matter of picking a 'setting' and being consistant with all injectors to get dead accurate readings. I'm curious to see how the same paramters respond to different injectors, like how much the HPOil pressure drops, etc.

As for nozzles, stock are .006". My smallest 'Big' nozzle flows a rated 80% more than a stock nozzle, which roughly compares to the flow from a nozzle that has .008" EDM holes. I also have 100% over nozzles that roughly equal a nozzle with .0085" EDM holes. And I have 200% over nozzles roughly equal to a nozzle with .012" EDM holes. Note that I stated EDM holes, since Extrude Honing can match the flow, but usually at different hole sizes.

These are not % larger NOZZLES or holes, rather % increase in flow. That does not mean a 160cc injector will flow 200% more fuel with a 200% over nozzle! A 160cc Stage-1 injector will never flow more than 160cc, but it can take longer with a stock nozzle, and shorter amount of time with a larger nozzle. Getting the fuel injected quicker nets more power. Yes, you loose atomization, but if it's power you're after, the easiest way is to go with larger holes.

 

That is some of the info I was looking for, Thanx Jim.

So I assume you use the nozzles that flow 80% more on your Stage II's?

What size injectors get the 100% nozzles?

Also the 200% nozzles?

Is there much performance difference between the 80% and 100%?

I got 180cc injectors from you back in early summer, what did you put on mine?

What would you recommend for the next step or next few steps up from a Stage II.

BTW, I love my sticks but I am human and as always, I appreciate what I have but always want more. LOL
Sorry for the 40 question gig but Thanx for clearing it up for me/us.

 

Also do you mind explaining hybrids...if you got the time.

 

Hybrids involve taking the barrell and plunger (7.1mm?) from (i think) b codes and putting them below a 16mm (A-code) intensifier piston. You put out more fuel by lowering the injection pressure. I'm sure he has more info.