I am in the process of rebuilding my C6 and decided to put the wide ratio planetary set from an E4OD in it. I bought a kit with the parts required including the extra torrington that takes the place of the #10 thrust washer, but I have run into a snag. The C6 planetary has a torrington down inside it behind the planet gears. It appears that the E40D set should have an equivalent torrington, but the one in the C6 set is captive behind the teeth on the gears. I presume I need this torrington. Is that correct? If so is it the same part or different.

Thanks

 

bump What kit is this that you speak of? Would I be able to assemble it with over the counter parts? This setup intrigues me...

 

You might find that the bearing is not actually captive, but takes maneuvering to remove. I don't know the specifics of the individual parts, but the bearings are taking the place of thrust washers in my little tank of knowledge, and are used to reduce friction. Only thing is that the bearings don't have as much capacity as the thrust washers, and will disintegrate if loaded highly.
The 'stack' of parts eventually has to sum up to the right 'spot' to keep the oil passages generally in the right space, or you will get slow apply of the clutch packs, etc. The German trans builders/designers accounted for the thickness of the gaskets when measuring their 'stack' tolerances. When doing the dry assembly, they indicated that the proper thickness gasket material be in place while measuring end play.
tom

 

The bearing is definitely "captive" and as such is hard to find without the buying the whole assembly. The stack up of parts is critical and is the same with the E40D parts as it is with the C6 parts. There are no gaskets involved in the stack up dimension of the C6. I am not sure what you are talking about in regard to thrust loading capability being higher with the thrust washers, but the newer transmissions have all gone to needle races in place of the thrust washers. The thrust washers have much higher parasitic losses which was one of the problems with the C6 and a properly sized needle race will have a much higher load rating than a plain thrust washer. Ford Performance has a kit available that replaces ALL of the thrust washers with needle races as well as the gear set with the newer 6 pinion planetary set with a steel carrier rather than aluminum.

 

I bought mine from Oregon Performance Transmission Parts in Portland, OR. There are numerous suppliers of the various parts. The most complete setup (and most expensive) is from Ford Performance Parts. It converts all of the thrust washers to needle races and both planetary sets to the newer steel carrier heavy duty setups. I think it also has the newer sprags included of course it is also about $700.00. The kit I bought didn't include the required thrust race to replace the #10 thrust in the C6 (between the sungear and planetary housing. I played hell finding it. I think I have about $500 in parts for a new pump,the master rebuild kit, planetary set, an "R" servo,a shift kit and a new low stall speed torque converter. The planetary set is stronger and gives a lower first and second gear ratio. The low stall converter is to reduce slippage when towing. Supposedly will increase gas mileage as well. If you have to rebuild the tranny anyway it is only about $300.00 more to go with the newer parts

 

Well, I have to disagree on the bearing capacity of needle bearings. A well lubed thrust bearing will handle a lot more load before failure than a needle bearing. The thrust bearings used in the reduction gears of steamships handle all the thrust produced by the screws, and that is thousands of pounds of thrust.
Maybe there has been a development in needle bearings that I am not aware of. The A4LD that I worked on a while ago had needle bearings that were in what looked like a paper race. I guess they work, but they looked as if they were about to fail. The thrust washers were in a lot better shape.
It also had what I thought was a trapped thrust bearing, which fell on the floor when I maneuvered it just the right way. Very similar to what was described by you.
I am not an expert, and do not claim to be one. I am only relating my experience and some of the knowledge learned. Sometimes there is value in what others say. tom

 

Not to be contentious,and I am certainly no expert, but,in my experience,the thrust bearings in reduction gears on ships are very different than the thrust washers in a C6. Most I have seen are a Kingsbury thrust with tilting pads to adjust for different loads and RPM and are usually pressure lubricated. As I also said, "A properly designed needle race" If you look at the newer transmissions you will find they have all gone to needle races to reduce frictional losses Also the thrust races in a C6 and an E4OD are in steel retainers not paper. And finally the thrust race I speak of in a C6 IS captive due to the diameter of the planet gears.You could maneuver it until your fingers fell off and it would not drop out. The E4OD race is NOT captive due to the smaller planet diameter. I agree there is value in what others say, but your arguement is not related to the original posting. By the way, have YOU ever taken apart a C6 and looked at the subject bearing?