Coolant Recovery Tank
#17
10-28-2008, 04:31 PM
Fleet Owner
The key thing for coolant recovery is that the cap doesn't relieve vacuum thru the top of the cap. It needs to be sealed to the top of the neck tight enough that vacuum will pull fluid back out of the recovery bottle via the overflow connection. It is a different seal in the cap that makes this work.
JCWhitney sells the complete kits, bottles have been used too.
edit: Bill, you've certainly got nothing to apologize for.
JCWhitney sells the complete kits, bottles have been used too.
edit: Bill, you've certainly got nothing to apologize for.
#18
10-29-2008, 10:26 AM
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Hmm I am probably going to open a can of worms here but I was thinking the same thing as Numberdummy when I read your post Julie. :-/ I am not critiquing your build but it did strike me as odd and a bit redundant to have two radiator caps. The little tank on the front of your motor was designed to purge the air out of a cooling system where any part of the motor water jacket is higher than the radiator. You see those tanks used with low profile hoods where the radiator is mounted low enough in relation to the engine to cause air bubbles to collect in the system, which could cause over heating and surge issues, hence the name "Purge Tank". The low profile hood is also one of the reasons why they started making cross flow radiators as well.
Unless you actually cut the top off the Purge/Surge/Expansion tank and brazed in a section of pipe to connect the in and out directly it will always be a Purge/Surge/Expansion Tank period. Please don't be upset with me Julie the member wanted to know about recovery tanks and your post is a bit misleading to someone who knows little or nothing about cooling systems and puzzling to those who do.
A "recovery" tank by definition is outside of the pressurized cooling system. It recovers the coolant expelled from the cooling system from expansion and saves the coolant for when the system temperature is low enough to cause a negative pressure and draw the coolant out of the container back into the cooling system. Yes you need a radiator cap for a closed system and having a cap with a pressure relief lever is better still. When you have to use the lever the hot coolant goes into the recovery tank and not all over your feet.
As for Bill chiming in… Read below what my grandpa told me, Ya learn a lot from old and grouchy… Thank Ya Bill
Cyrus
_____________________
My Grandpa told me once that you have to learn by the mistakes of others because you will NOT live long enough to make them all yourself.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... HELL YEAH!!! What a trip!
Unless you actually cut the top off the Purge/Surge/Expansion tank and brazed in a section of pipe to connect the in and out directly it will always be a Purge/Surge/Expansion Tank period. Please don't be upset with me Julie the member wanted to know about recovery tanks and your post is a bit misleading to someone who knows little or nothing about cooling systems and puzzling to those who do.
A "recovery" tank by definition is outside of the pressurized cooling system. It recovers the coolant expelled from the cooling system from expansion and saves the coolant for when the system temperature is low enough to cause a negative pressure and draw the coolant out of the container back into the cooling system. Yes you need a radiator cap for a closed system and having a cap with a pressure relief lever is better still. When you have to use the lever the hot coolant goes into the recovery tank and not all over your feet.
As for Bill chiming in… Read below what my grandpa told me, Ya learn a lot from old and grouchy… Thank Ya Bill
Cyrus
_____________________
My Grandpa told me once that you have to learn by the mistakes of others because you will NOT live long enough to make them all yourself.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... HELL YEAH!!! What a trip!
#19
10-29-2008, 01:34 PM
Post Fiend
[quote=Cyruscosmo;6702132]
Unless you actually cut the top off the Purge/Surge/Expansion tank and brazed in a section of pipe to connect the in and out directly it will always be a Purge/Surge/Expansion Tank period. Please don't be upset with me Julie the member wanted to know about recovery tanks and your post is a bit misleading to someone who knows little or nothing about cooling systems and puzzling to those who do.
A "recovery" tank by definition is outside of the pressurized cooling system. It recovers the coolant expelled from the cooling system from expansion and saves the coolant for when the system temperature is low enough to cause a negative pressure and draw the coolant out of the container back into the cooling system. Cyrus
quote]
Hi Cyrus,
Not upset at all, as a matter of fact invite the constructive discussion and exchange of ideas as you have brough forward. That's why we are here is it not?
My public issue with Bill, despite the tremendous and dedicated contribution he makes, a contribution that we would all sorely miss, was for a public recurance of a prior grievance that he an I had previously discussed privately off line, and at this point that's where it belongs. EOS!
Ok, so lets talk about the coolant, expansion, expulsion, pressure, vacuum and saving that coolant from spitting out all over the ground. And lets try and do that without labeling each piece with a name. The reason this is important is becasue earlier in the post I had suggested that an old flat head oil filter cannister could be used as a recovery tank. But I'm not at all suggesting one fill his cooling system with oil. So sometimes we need to spend a little less time with that "by definition" and look at what actually works and why. That's how we invent new things. American Ingenuity. Get my point?
Ok technical stuff:
As the engine heats up the coolant expands and need to go somewhere. If the cooling system is full of coolant, as it expands, the excess goes on the ground. Any air in the system will be expelled first. Ok so far?
The original function of that big brass hollow thingy on the front of my engine was to trap that air, and expell it to allow for that expansion of the coolant while reducing or elliminating coolant system pressure. Right? Ok now your saying: "Hmm isn't that a surge/purge tank?" Yes it is. But, you also have to remember that it IS connected to the engine at the thermostat housing and DOES outflow into the radiator.
Remember, also, as you suggested, the tank would need to have a pipe or opening to discharge that air AND ALLOW THAT SPACE TO BE USED FOR THE COLLECTION AND STORAGE OF EXPANDED COOLANT. And it does. And if I'm not mistaken, that's what we are looking for here. But there's an important caveat to the system required to make it work - it's coming.
But first, lets back track. The little plastic tank thingy on my radiator is plumbed to the overflow pipe soldered to the radiator neck under the pressure cap. When the coolant expands due to heating, at the given pressure, the cap is forced up and the fluid under it (being air or coolant) is expelled and collected. Same thing happens when it cools only in reverse- if the radiator is full.
The key difference between the two is that one is within the pressurized coolng system and one is outside. But the desired outcome is exactly the same - the dispalcement of air in a given space to allow that space to be used for excess coolant when expansion occures. AND that collected fluid to be available to reenter the system as it cools.
If, If, If (and that is a "big if"), as in this case, the top of the surge tank is slightly higher than the top of the fluid level in the coolant system, then the surge tank becomes a recovery tank by default. And despite the deception provided by the photograph, this is the case on my set-up.
The "surge tank" has been provide with a 4 pound radiator cap and at the moment, the radiator has a 7 pound cap. I glossed over the reason previously. During the new engine break in I added the plastic tank because of the rapid temperature and pressure extremes I would get when shiftin gfrom freeway driving to traffic. With the extreme temperature variation, there was a more dramatic expansion of fluid and more overflow. The surge tank simply didn't have the capacity to handle it at the time, and I did not want to run lower coolant levels during the break in.
At this point however, the plastic recovery tank is not needed, the coolant llevel has been lowered, and the surge tank, functioning as a recovery tank, is handling the situation. And, it is doing so without the need for an external recovery tank (in a situation where engine compartment space may be at a premium).
So ok, now you're thinking "well that seems dumb, why lower the fluid level and add a tank...why not just fill up the radiator and use a regular recovery tank." Good question, why not...no reason - go ahead.
But, on the other hand, I operate my engine at a normal running temperature of 140 dgF - well below that of the more modern engines that run in the lower to mid 200s. Thus I have less expansion under normal conditions and need less coolant recovery than the hotter running engines with more expansion.
But moreso, in this particular application, my experience with other fliuds subjected to dynamic thermal conditions told me that, with a 412 hp engine that has the capacity during break in, to jump in temperature from 140 dgF, to 260 dgF in a matter of seconds, and have to endure the rapid pressure build up of that increase; the additional coolant provided by the extra tank, which is deliberately incorporated into the pressure system, is greater than that lost by the lower coolant level, and the air trapped in the upper 1/4 inch of the radiator will compress, where coolant will not, thereby providing a buffer for pressure fluctuations, and protecting the structural integrity of the radiator at the expense of an accessible, and reletively inexpensive recovery tank from which excess air is expended and inhaled rather than coolant.
Still with me?
You are also right in another respect. At the time I offered this as an alternative suggestion, an "IDEA" (that has worked for me), my input was vague (which can be "misleading" as you put it) - you're right!
Simple reason is that I know I have a tendancy to write very long and indepth explanations
and that post was already too big. I expected the discussion to continue and this more in depth explanation would come forth as part of that discussion at a later time. Unfortunately, that was overcome by events - at the time.
Thanks for your input and the discussion Cy!
J!
Unless you actually cut the top off the Purge/Surge/Expansion tank and brazed in a section of pipe to connect the in and out directly it will always be a Purge/Surge/Expansion Tank period. Please don't be upset with me Julie the member wanted to know about recovery tanks and your post is a bit misleading to someone who knows little or nothing about cooling systems and puzzling to those who do.
A "recovery" tank by definition is outside of the pressurized cooling system. It recovers the coolant expelled from the cooling system from expansion and saves the coolant for when the system temperature is low enough to cause a negative pressure and draw the coolant out of the container back into the cooling system. Cyrus
quote]
Hi Cyrus,
Not upset at all, as a matter of fact invite the constructive discussion and exchange of ideas as you have brough forward. That's why we are here is it not?
My public issue with Bill, despite the tremendous and dedicated contribution he makes, a contribution that we would all sorely miss, was for a public recurance of a prior grievance that he an I had previously discussed privately off line, and at this point that's where it belongs. EOS!
Ok, so lets talk about the coolant, expansion, expulsion, pressure, vacuum and saving that coolant from spitting out all over the ground. And lets try and do that without labeling each piece with a name. The reason this is important is becasue earlier in the post I had suggested that an old flat head oil filter cannister could be used as a recovery tank. But I'm not at all suggesting one fill his cooling system with oil. So sometimes we need to spend a little less time with that "by definition" and look at what actually works and why. That's how we invent new things. American Ingenuity. Get my point?
Ok technical stuff:
As the engine heats up the coolant expands and need to go somewhere. If the cooling system is full of coolant, as it expands, the excess goes on the ground. Any air in the system will be expelled first. Ok so far?
The original function of that big brass hollow thingy on the front of my engine was to trap that air, and expell it to allow for that expansion of the coolant while reducing or elliminating coolant system pressure. Right? Ok now your saying: "Hmm isn't that a surge/purge tank?" Yes it is. But, you also have to remember that it IS connected to the engine at the thermostat housing and DOES outflow into the radiator.
Remember, also, as you suggested, the tank would need to have a pipe or opening to discharge that air AND ALLOW THAT SPACE TO BE USED FOR THE COLLECTION AND STORAGE OF EXPANDED COOLANT. And it does. And if I'm not mistaken, that's what we are looking for here. But there's an important caveat to the system required to make it work - it's coming.
But first, lets back track. The little plastic tank thingy on my radiator is plumbed to the overflow pipe soldered to the radiator neck under the pressure cap. When the coolant expands due to heating, at the given pressure, the cap is forced up and the fluid under it (being air or coolant) is expelled and collected. Same thing happens when it cools only in reverse- if the radiator is full.
The key difference between the two is that one is within the pressurized coolng system and one is outside. But the desired outcome is exactly the same - the dispalcement of air in a given space to allow that space to be used for excess coolant when expansion occures. AND that collected fluid to be available to reenter the system as it cools.
If, If, If (and that is a "big if"), as in this case, the top of the surge tank is slightly higher than the top of the fluid level in the coolant system, then the surge tank becomes a recovery tank by default. And despite the deception provided by the photograph, this is the case on my set-up.
The "surge tank" has been provide with a 4 pound radiator cap and at the moment, the radiator has a 7 pound cap. I glossed over the reason previously. During the new engine break in I added the plastic tank because of the rapid temperature and pressure extremes I would get when shiftin gfrom freeway driving to traffic. With the extreme temperature variation, there was a more dramatic expansion of fluid and more overflow. The surge tank simply didn't have the capacity to handle it at the time, and I did not want to run lower coolant levels during the break in.
At this point however, the plastic recovery tank is not needed, the coolant llevel has been lowered, and the surge tank, functioning as a recovery tank, is handling the situation. And, it is doing so without the need for an external recovery tank (in a situation where engine compartment space may be at a premium).
So ok, now you're thinking "well that seems dumb, why lower the fluid level and add a tank...why not just fill up the radiator and use a regular recovery tank." Good question, why not...no reason - go ahead.
But, on the other hand, I operate my engine at a normal running temperature of 140 dgF - well below that of the more modern engines that run in the lower to mid 200s. Thus I have less expansion under normal conditions and need less coolant recovery than the hotter running engines with more expansion.
But moreso, in this particular application, my experience with other fliuds subjected to dynamic thermal conditions told me that, with a 412 hp engine that has the capacity during break in, to jump in temperature from 140 dgF, to 260 dgF in a matter of seconds, and have to endure the rapid pressure build up of that increase; the additional coolant provided by the extra tank, which is deliberately incorporated into the pressure system, is greater than that lost by the lower coolant level, and the air trapped in the upper 1/4 inch of the radiator will compress, where coolant will not, thereby providing a buffer for pressure fluctuations, and protecting the structural integrity of the radiator at the expense of an accessible, and reletively inexpensive recovery tank from which excess air is expended and inhaled rather than coolant.
Still with me?
You are also right in another respect. At the time I offered this as an alternative suggestion, an "IDEA" (that has worked for me), my input was vague (which can be "misleading" as you put it) - you're right!
Simple reason is that I know I have a tendancy to write very long and indepth explanations
and that post was already too big. I expected the discussion to continue and this more in depth explanation would come forth as part of that discussion at a later time. Unfortunately, that was overcome by events - at the time.Thanks for your input and the discussion Cy!
J!
#20
10-29-2008, 03:08 PM
May I add something here without being flamed?
All 1960/64 Ford/Mercury full sized cars (6's and V8's) used a surge * tank.
This was the only location for the radiator cap, it was not on the radiator itself.
These cars all have crossflow radiators.
* Ford terminology: Supply Tank, aka a surge tank.
These tanks were also used on 1966/68 & 1973/77 V8 Bronco's.
1975/78 Mustang II's with the 302 used a similar device, but it was spliced in between the two upper radiator hoses.
Because Ford had to the 'shoehorn' this engine into Mustang II's (which are nothing more than re-skinned Pinto's), it was strictly used for mounting the radiator cap, it wasn't a supply tank.
All 1960/64 Ford/Mercury full sized cars (6's and V8's) used a surge * tank.
This was the only location for the radiator cap, it was not on the radiator itself.
These cars all have crossflow radiators.
* Ford terminology: Supply Tank, aka a surge tank.
These tanks were also used on 1966/68 & 1973/77 V8 Bronco's.
1975/78 Mustang II's with the 302 used a similar device, but it was spliced in between the two upper radiator hoses.
Because Ford had to the 'shoehorn' this engine into Mustang II's (which are nothing more than re-skinned Pinto's), it was strictly used for mounting the radiator cap, it wasn't a supply tank.
#21
10-29-2008, 03:29 PM
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WOW! What a refreshingly intelligent lady you be! Will you marry me? Ok in answer to your post here goes..
Quote: " As the engine heats up the coolant expands and need to go somewhere. If the cooling system is full of coolant, as it expands, the excess goes on the ground. Any air in the system will be expelled first. Ok so far?"
Yes I am with you so far. ;-)
Quote: " The original function of that big brass hollow thingy on the front of my engine was to trap that air, and expel it to allow for that expansion of the coolant while reducing or eliminating coolant system pressure. Right? Ok now your saying: "Hmm isn't that a surge/purge tank?" Yes it is. But, you also have to remember that it IS connected to the engine at the thermostat housing and DOES outflow into the radiator."
Yes it does outflow to the radiator because it was designed to give the air in the system a place to be collected and part of it removed. Part of the air was used as an expansion cushion, which is why the hole where the radiator cap mounts protrudes into the tank so ALL of the air cannot be removed. It was uncommon to use a closed recovery system then so there had to be a place for the expanding fluid to go to so as not to blow a seam. There is a baffle in the tank to keep the coolant from jetting out of the hole if the radiator cap is removed.
Quote: " Remember, also, as you suggested, the tank would need to have a pipe or opening to discharge that air AND ALLOW THAT SPACE TO BE USED FOR THE COLLECTION AND STORAGE OF EXPANDED COOLANT. And it does. And if I'm not mistaken, that's what we are looking for here. But there's an important caveat to the system required to make it work - it's coming."
Actually what I was trying to get across to ya is that if you do open the small tank and solder a tube inside to connect the input and output side together then you could use the rest of the tank space as a recovery tank. Would be difficult to do and I did not think that is how you used the tank but it was a thought of mine.
Quote: " But first, lets back track. The little plastic tank thingy on my radiator is plumbed to the overflow pipe soldered to the radiator neck under the pressure cap. When the coolant expands due to heating, at the given pressure, the cap is forced up and the fluid under it (being air or coolant) is expelled and collected. Same thing happens when it cools only in reverse- if the radiator is full.”
Yes, which is why it's called a recovery tank because the fluid actually leaves the cooling loop to be stored outside the system. Whereas the other tank is providing space for the expansion of the coolant inside the system so with a bit of semantics it could be said that both methods give the extra fluid a place to go and then make sure the fluid returns to service.
Quote: "The key difference between the two is that one is within the pressurized cooling system and one is outside. But the desired outcome is exactly the same - the displacement of air in a given space to allow that space to be used for excess coolant when expansion occurs. AND that collected fluid to be available to reenter the system as it cools."
;-) Wink
Quote: " If, If, If (and that is a "big if"), as in this case, the top of the surge tank is slightly higher than the top of the fluid level in the coolant system, then the surge tank becomes a recovery tank by default. And despite the deception provided by the photograph, this is the case on my set-up.”
You are controlling your expansion issues with extra space, which makes that an expansion tank. The fluid would have to leave the system to be "recovered" So now I understand a little better why you have your system set up as you do and I am sure it works rather well.
Some other thoughts of mine as to why you are having such a wide temperature swing would be the use of such low-pressure caps and maybe the wrong temp thermostat. The first engine I rebuilt was in my first car, which was a 67 Mustang. The PO had switched out the 289 with a 351 Cleveland and a few weeks after I bought it I blew a head gasket after it over heated. Well after the rebuild I was so scared of overheating it again I put the lowest temp thermostat I could find in it and had nothing but problems with over heating. An old timer at the Napa where I bought my parts told me to up the thermostat to 190 and the system pressure to 14 with a rad cap made for a closed system. Then add a recovery tank and after that she ran around 180 to 210 even in the summer. I had the car for another 5 years after that and ended up getting in a wreck with some dork in a porsch. He failed to yield the right of way at an uncontrolled intersection and even got a ticket but the judge saw a 22 year old with long hair and an upstanding dentist with a family and it was my fault. I am a bit ashamed to say I found his car a month after he got it back from the body shop and burned it to the ground. I paid 10 grand for it in the settlement after all. Was nothing but a glorified VW bug.
I tend to be a bit long winded too me thinks… But I enjoy a good discussion! And no what you did does not seam dumb to me I just did not understand why you used that method.
Ok gotta get back to work here looking forward to other discussions with ya Julie!
Cyrus
____________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... HELL YEAH!!! What a trip!
Quote: " As the engine heats up the coolant expands and need to go somewhere. If the cooling system is full of coolant, as it expands, the excess goes on the ground. Any air in the system will be expelled first. Ok so far?"
Yes I am with you so far. ;-)
Quote: " The original function of that big brass hollow thingy on the front of my engine was to trap that air, and expel it to allow for that expansion of the coolant while reducing or eliminating coolant system pressure. Right? Ok now your saying: "Hmm isn't that a surge/purge tank?" Yes it is. But, you also have to remember that it IS connected to the engine at the thermostat housing and DOES outflow into the radiator."
Yes it does outflow to the radiator because it was designed to give the air in the system a place to be collected and part of it removed. Part of the air was used as an expansion cushion, which is why the hole where the radiator cap mounts protrudes into the tank so ALL of the air cannot be removed. It was uncommon to use a closed recovery system then so there had to be a place for the expanding fluid to go to so as not to blow a seam. There is a baffle in the tank to keep the coolant from jetting out of the hole if the radiator cap is removed.
Quote: " Remember, also, as you suggested, the tank would need to have a pipe or opening to discharge that air AND ALLOW THAT SPACE TO BE USED FOR THE COLLECTION AND STORAGE OF EXPANDED COOLANT. And it does. And if I'm not mistaken, that's what we are looking for here. But there's an important caveat to the system required to make it work - it's coming."
Actually what I was trying to get across to ya is that if you do open the small tank and solder a tube inside to connect the input and output side together then you could use the rest of the tank space as a recovery tank. Would be difficult to do and I did not think that is how you used the tank but it was a thought of mine.
Quote: " But first, lets back track. The little plastic tank thingy on my radiator is plumbed to the overflow pipe soldered to the radiator neck under the pressure cap. When the coolant expands due to heating, at the given pressure, the cap is forced up and the fluid under it (being air or coolant) is expelled and collected. Same thing happens when it cools only in reverse- if the radiator is full.”
Yes, which is why it's called a recovery tank because the fluid actually leaves the cooling loop to be stored outside the system. Whereas the other tank is providing space for the expansion of the coolant inside the system so with a bit of semantics it could be said that both methods give the extra fluid a place to go and then make sure the fluid returns to service.
Quote: "The key difference between the two is that one is within the pressurized cooling system and one is outside. But the desired outcome is exactly the same - the displacement of air in a given space to allow that space to be used for excess coolant when expansion occurs. AND that collected fluid to be available to reenter the system as it cools."
;-) Wink
Quote: " If, If, If (and that is a "big if"), as in this case, the top of the surge tank is slightly higher than the top of the fluid level in the coolant system, then the surge tank becomes a recovery tank by default. And despite the deception provided by the photograph, this is the case on my set-up.”
You are controlling your expansion issues with extra space, which makes that an expansion tank. The fluid would have to leave the system to be "recovered" So now I understand a little better why you have your system set up as you do and I am sure it works rather well.
Some other thoughts of mine as to why you are having such a wide temperature swing would be the use of such low-pressure caps and maybe the wrong temp thermostat. The first engine I rebuilt was in my first car, which was a 67 Mustang. The PO had switched out the 289 with a 351 Cleveland and a few weeks after I bought it I blew a head gasket after it over heated. Well after the rebuild I was so scared of overheating it again I put the lowest temp thermostat I could find in it and had nothing but problems with over heating. An old timer at the Napa where I bought my parts told me to up the thermostat to 190 and the system pressure to 14 with a rad cap made for a closed system. Then add a recovery tank and after that she ran around 180 to 210 even in the summer. I had the car for another 5 years after that and ended up getting in a wreck with some dork in a porsch. He failed to yield the right of way at an uncontrolled intersection and even got a ticket but the judge saw a 22 year old with long hair and an upstanding dentist with a family and it was my fault. I am a bit ashamed to say I found his car a month after he got it back from the body shop and burned it to the ground. I paid 10 grand for it in the settlement after all. Was nothing but a glorified VW bug.
I tend to be a bit long winded too me thinks… But I enjoy a good discussion! And no what you did does not seam dumb to me I just did not understand why you used that method.
Ok gotta get back to work here looking forward to other discussions with ya Julie!
Cyrus
____________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... HELL YEAH!!! What a trip!
#22
10-29-2008, 03:51 PM
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#23
10-29-2008, 04:34 PM
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Ok, quick version on cooling - beer - chill before drinking!
Ok other things:
Interesting idea about channeling the two chambers on the tank! Hadn't thought of that. At this point I'm trying to figure out how you did the insert responses on my post, and how to move quotes from two posts into a single response - so much for "an intelligent woman!"
Also, we are right together on the air & "buffering" effect. I'm using that air buffer in both the tank and the radiator. You may have noticed but if you look at the picture again you'll see that the radiator hose out of the tank flows slightly up. That's another difference to the stock set up which I believe was more level. That has that 1/4 inch of air trapped in the radiator - unless something gets too hot and it expands, then it's out the radiator neck/cap. If that happens at this point, it's time to pull over and check things because the 4 pound cap on the tank is overloaded and pressure is above 7 pounds and venting out of the second cap - way to much going on there.
I guess this set up has been a little bit of an evolution - part of it was deliberatly designed in before the truck was running and part reaction to those first two drives.
I'm close to deciding that my dessert cooler radiator is not big enough to handle the truck - especially in SoCal sumer heat (although I had no problems this summer) and second it's not really well built (or maybe it's just shot).
My first drive was quite a specticle: the freeway was fine - guages working
then I got into a little traffic. 180 thermostat opened as advertised then I sat and watched the temperature guage run up and peg! "Oh crap lets burn up $4000 worth of engine (FE 390 PI)!" By the time I got home (2 miles) it was not only shooting coolant out the overflow tube on the tank, but about 5 busted seams and pin holes in the radiator. One was shooting out about 20 feet in front of the truck. I looked like the fire boats on SD Bay when they welcome a new ship into port!....Ok might be time for cooling system plan B. OBTW, FE's tend to be tough for temping up during break in I've heard.So I removed the radiator "Hard" cap (that Bill mentioned above) and installed a 7 pound cap just as a safety back up. Then I took the 13 pound cap off the tank and replaced it with a 4 pound.
I still had the temperature jump for about the first 1000 miles, and had a green neon trail to find my way home from overflow, but at least I didn't blow anything up. That's when I installed the temporary plastic tank. And it is hooked up to the tank not the radiator.
Now with 3500 miles on the engine, it has really mellowed out and sems to be running "normally." So, I am going to take off the plastic tank but leave on the 7 pound cap just as a safety back-up. And I think for the winter I might try the 160 Dgf thermostat as you suggested for more consistancy.
The truck is running great but I'm having to be careful because as I'm driving it on my new systems, I'm having to watch very carefully the things still installed by the PO - at least he was consistant - EVERYTHING he did was fouled up.
I also have to be careful about one more thing I think for a few more miles. And I'm not trying to tease you guys with this. But here in San Diego, the weather is not as extreme as most of the other parts of the country, but is can be very decieving. For example, last night it got down to 52 dgf. What's to complain about right? But we currently have our infamous Santa Anna Conditions, the daytime temp is up to 100 dgF today (yes a 50 dgF spread) and the relative humidity is down around 5-10 % during the day. That low humidity causes very poor heat exchange with air over radiator coils. So if I put the warmer thermostat in, I'm still a little worried about cooling. I like running the engine cooler -even at the expense of mileage - as an engine life thing. But having that coolant temperature go from an ambiet 50 degrees up to 160/180 might still cause me a few problems at the traffic lights (the temp does still creep up but not nearly so much) So I like having the extra 40 dgf to play with.
If you hear me crying about radiators in a few months you'll know I went for it too soon.
By all!
J!
#25
10-29-2008, 05:15 PM
Senior User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Woodinville
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LOL the quotes are easy… copy your post and paste into word, then answer post, then copy and paste answered post to the advanced reply and then rope the "quotes" and select a different font colour. Voila!
Maybe you should see about a 4 core cross flow radiator and a fan shroud? More core to the wind ='s cooler radiator outflow and a shroud ='s all of the core used.
Cyrus
_____________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... HELL YEAH!!! What a ride!
Maybe you should see about a 4 core cross flow radiator and a fan shroud? More core to the wind ='s cooler radiator outflow and a shroud ='s all of the core used.
Cyrus
_____________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... HELL YEAH!!! What a ride!
Last edited by Cyruscosmo; 10-29-2008 at 05:17 PM. Reason: misspelled word
#26
10-29-2008, 05:56 PM
Post Fiend
Desert cooler, desert, desert.......
Cripe Almighty Bill, am I gonna have to drive up there and SPANK YOU!
Yep, I'm thinking about that radiator change out. Made a great fan shroud - sceintifically correct (you know fan out a certain distance, blades a certain distance from, etc etc.) Might be one of the reasons why it's behaving better.
One more question: Got the part about cutting and pasting into word and modifying there, but the part about "roping" the quotes went right past me.
J!
Edit note: Never mind....just saw the "multi quote" function.. OYE VEY!
#28
10-29-2008, 07:16 PM
Post Fiend
#29
10-29-2008, 08:00 PM
Ideas for novel recovery tanks abound over on the H.A.M.B. A quick search turned up several threads, including this one: Puke Catcher... - THE H.A.M.B.
#30
10-30-2008, 01:05 AM
Post Fiend
Ideas for novel recovery tanks abound over on the H.A.M.B. A quick search turned up several threads, including this one: Puke Catcher... - THE H.A.M.B.
H.A.M.B on five hold the Mayo!
.........Peter Graves as "Captain Clarence Oveur," Airplane!, Paramount Pictures, 1980)
Sorry, I just had too!
J!