Anybody who says tuning can't make a big difference is full of it. The 5.4l 3V can show great gains as well.

Heres some numbers. Everything stock on an 05' CC 6.8l V10. Stock tune running 87 octane vs a custom dyno tune running 93 octane.

Our truck has 105,000 miles so its broke in 4.10 gear

Peak to Peak gains over stock; we seen 4000 rpm & up
rwhp 24
rwtq 38

Down low gains over stock ;we seen some great tq improvements, which i noticed with our 5th wheel...

3200 rpm
rwhp-46
rwtq-75

3400 rpm
rwhp-38
rwtq-60

3600 rpm
rwhp-35
rwtq-53

3800 rpm
rwhp-26
rwtq-44

Torque Peaks
stock 4000 rpm
93 calibration 3300 rpm

 

That's the exact case I was referencing...
JL

 

For the 5.4L, you're only going to see 70-80% of the numbers you show above for the 6.8L 3V you're running, plus it's going to cost the user about $10 extra per tank of gas to get those numbers due to the higher cost of premium.

So it's back to the original argument. Why would anyone pays the $$ for the tuner, PLUS the extra $$ for the premium fuel, for hardly a couple dozen HP?

TX

 

And how many people actually get thier trucks dyno tuned? How much does that cost? Is the OP going to have this done or is he going to use canned tunes?

I've also said that a tuner is the only thing that I would get. That is unless you want the exhaust sound, then an exhaust is in order.

But 20HP, 24HP, who cares? It's not going to be that noticeable in a Superduty. We're talking about an 8% increase figured for 24 HP gain and you're going to be running premium fuel.

I also keep hearing V10, V10. We all know it's an awesome engine and there is a lot of displacement there so minimal things get a bigger difference. I rarely hear anything other than the 5.4 is adequate even in F150s.

So if someone can show me anything with hard #s on a 5.4 SD, I'll be convinced. Otherwise, it's just speculation other than drive by wire improvements.

Mike

 

You seem to be overlooking the VVT that is on the 5.4L-it has MORE power gain potential per CI than the 6.8L due to the ability to manipulate cam timing.
I also argue with "not being able to feel it on a superduty"-I've seen and driven it first hand on a truck identical to mine with a 5.4L. From stock to "canned 87 octane tune" it is a night and day difference in acceleration from off idle to WOT shiftpoints, and it's not just drive-by-wire improvements.
JL

 

Here's the deal-Show me some 5.4 87 octane stock vs 87 octane canned tune numbers and I'll believe you. Otherwise I'll chalk up most of the perceived power increase to drive by wire and transmission tuning.

IMO there just isn't that much left in the 5.4 mechanicly. As far as I know they've basicly only changed the heads (as far as fundamental parts go) since its 1997, 235 HP debut. Now (2009) they are almost 100 HP higher, but it took 3 revisions including adding a valve and VVT. Heck, even the 4 valve 5.4 supercharged Ford GT only makes 550.

Mike

 

$9 extra a tank isn't bad when your paying $4+ a gallon for fuel. Many reported a mpg increase also while running 93 also. If it ain't worth it to you don't run it, but the numbers don't lie. Remember you are not going to get diesel gains from a tuner out of a gasser. Reducing lag times, adjusting the TC lockup and etc will make the truck so much more fun to drive and is worth the $400 for a tuner with custom tunes in my book.

The 5.4l 3V has VVT and a 9.8:1 compression ratio so it will still get good gains with 93 fuel. The gains will be close to the V10.

Did you look at the gains? 75 ft lb. of EXTRA torque right where its needed 3200rpm. The hp isn't as important as the torque. I'm sorry but if someone can't feel a 75lb ft gain in torque they must be mildly retarded. With my custom tune and long tube headers on my 2V the difference can definatly be felt. Especially on the hills.

 

Well a cam is mechanical. A custom grind cam will make the numbers go up substantially. There IS power left in the 5.4l mechanically.

With a smaller pulley on the supercharger and a custom tune the 5.4l in the GT500 can easily make 100hp more at the rear wheels. With a larger aftermarket supercharger and tuning it can make 850hp.

 

I've seen a Ford GT with only a tune and an exhaust system make just shy of 700RWHP on a Mustang dyno.
As for the 5.4L 2V-it made 235 hp in '97. In '99 the cams had an increase in valve lift from .466 in/.466 ex to .501 in/.531 ex and a slight intake/exhaust port redesign bumped it to 260 hp. In '04 an additional intake valve and VVT bumped it to 300hp. The '09 model supposedly make 320hp with no mechanical changes....So, just how do you figure the 5.4L is incapable of making more power? There is ALWAYS power to be gained. There is ALWAYS an improvement in tuning and mechanical finesse to get more out of an engine.
Example...Five years ago-if anybody had said that a 4.6L 2V would run a low 11 second pass in Factory Stock racing with unported heads, stock untouched intake manifold and stock lift camshafts at a 3000lb race weight-they would have been laughed out of town...
Fact is..it is happening,and it's all from fine tuning and mechanical finesse work to extract every last HP and ft-lb out of the engine as is possible. the very same principles that apply to the Race cars also apply to the engines found in these Super Duty trucks.
JL

 

By heads, I mean everything in the heads as well. The top end of the engine has been revised and revised and now the law of diminishing returns is in full effect.

Anyone who wants to compare a 5.4 with a canned tune vs a 6.8 with a custom tune and custom long tube headers is mildly to moderately retarded IMO.

In any case, I'm done. We're talking apples to oranges. You guys are talking thousands of dollars in machining, cams, tuning, etc, and I'm talking about canned tunes, intake and exhaust.

For the money you guys would be spending on a 5.4 to get a modest power increase at best, I'd just spend on a diesel or V10 that will be making much more power.

Mike

 

Mike. JLT offers a CAI for the 3v 5.4... they report some great gains for it, and I was going to do it on my old truck if I was to keep it. 30hp and 40+ tq with a tune (Tune IS required basically, the JLT intake does flow that much better than stock), is not unheard of. Their claims were backed up by quite a few people, many getting more than that in return. Most of them are with canned tunes. I see/hear of few with dyno tunes, but if it was me, I would have definitely done it on the dyno.

I have a JLT in the mustang, I know, nowhere near the same beast, but still gained 19hp and a bit of torque after the tune was altered - this was on a dyno. JLT's stuff is top notch, and once you see one and compare it with the stock stuff, you'll know why it flows more. On the mustang, you can fit the stock intake inside the JLT... The truck one is much simpler, basically a huge filter that looks like a warm air intake; but isn't so basically due to how much space is available in the engine bay. I imagine the 05+ SDs have even more room than the F150s.

If you can't feel 30hp and 40tq, you need to get the butt-dyno recalibrated. As for the "even the dohc 5.4 made 300hp" comment, hrm, you were referring to the lincoln navigator one... but somehow managed to leave out the cobra R motor, which put down quite a bit more than that, and before you say it, yes it has a torque curve that would suit a truck just fine. The difference between those two should give you an idea of how much is left on the table. Yes, the heads are a bit different and the cams are different, but they're not 100hp/tq different (cobra R was a bit underrated)...


to the OP: I see no reason the JLT wouldn't fit on a SD. check it out on jlttruecoldair.com or jusnesmodified.com (one of the FTE sponsors). Do get a tuner for your truck and have it dyno tuned.

As for the 4.30 gears comment, I usually say never fear the gear; but IMO, going to 4.30s from 4.10s isn't all that big of a jump... 4.56s would be the first stop. Like others said, the MPG drop is neglijable, and sometimes quite the opposite may be true (city/towing/etc).

Also, the 3v 5.4 has some nasty throttle lag... I was happy to get rid of that when i got the Ex. The tune should help w/ throttle lag quite a bit.

I usually don't see eye to eye with JL (usually on pi vs non pi heads, hehe), but this time he's pretty much on the money

 

I was refering to 2V V10 headers, I have a set and they arn't custom, two companies make bolt-on longtube headers. The gain is very noticable without any tuning at all, I didn't have a performance tune when I first got the headers on.(Stock spark, A/F and etc but with with line pressure set at 20% and the shift points bumped up a couple mph, nothing major) The 3Vs have different manifolds which are headerlike and much improved over the 2V. Some modest gains can be had with a set of shorties though. The 5.4l has decent gains with a set of $350 shorties. In the dyno #s I posted above don't pay attention to the hp, hp isn't everything. LOOK at the 75 lb ft torque increase at 3200 rpm, that can be felt, especially with a trailer in tow.

You said theres nothing in the "5.4l Mechanically", regardless of what you "Meant" Ford can easily change the cam profiles for the upcoming 5.4l and pick up quite a bit more power. Ford could do some redesigning of the head porting also and pick up power. My point was theres A lot of power Ford could make the 5.4l pump out without putting on a forced induction.

Your sort of hard to follow and I don't think you know exactly what is involved in custom tuning. A custom tune can be made how you want it and can be gotten for around $50. I've loaded "Canned Tunes" that didn't work right out of the box and had to be modified. Custom DYNO tuning will cost more and squeeze out a little more power than than a custom tune.

What were trying to say is on premium fuel there will be very similar gains with the 5.4l as the 6.8l sees. The 5.4l won't put as much power to the rollers as the 6.8l but the gains will be similar.

Forgot to post that the dyno #s above were done on a dyno that usually reads 10%-15% lower numbers than a Dynojet dynomometer.

 

I know the Mustang guys are easily pulling 850+ HP fron normally aspirated 4.6L engines. There should be that much and more in a 5.4L.

 

That's why I'm asking about the differences in design. The Roush supercharger that is in the classified section of this forum is an awesome deal at $2.700.00. That's almost half the regular price and Roush is an industry leader! So, will this kit work on my F350?

Ford-Truck Enthusiasts Classifieds - Roush F-150 supercharger for a 04-06 F-150 - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds

 

I know of nobody making 850+ out of a N/A 4.6L.....with a power adder-yes,but not N/A. The most I've seen out of any N/A 4.6L-even a race built 4V is around 450rwhp,and it's a high-strung, peaky, race-only piece that you couldn't drive on the street at all. A 2V 5.4L is probably the worst engine to build in N/A form-the cylinder heads are very limited in airflow capability to fill a cylinder with the bore restrictions that a modular has. They work very well with forced induction though-the Lightning is testament to that-just gotta keep the revs down to keep it together. The 3V 5.4L makes a really good all around powerplant with lots of airflow potential in the cylinder heads,but you've gotta put some money in the rotating assembly to keep it together at higher RPM,and the 4V 5.4L is the ultimate modular,but also has the same shortcomings as the other 5.4L's in the stock rotating assembly.
JL