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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

Brakes halfway releasing

 
  #31  
Old 07-05-2008, 03:56 PM
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My hat is off to anyone who will enter into a debate (discussion) and defend what they believe. It is the way things get worked out.

Crow isn't really all that bad anyway. I've had my share and we all get a chance to indulge now and then.
Any one that says they never have will lie to you about other things too.

I like your pictures. They also show the proper way for the springs to be installed ( front spring first ).
The anchor pin where the springs attach has a small diameter that tapers out to a larger diameter which causes the spring that is hooked first ( if both springs are the same) to have a little less tension than the one hooked last. This allows the front shoe to travel out to cantact the drum first.
If the springs are not the same it then matters which location each spring is used in but the front spring should still be hooked first.

Richard
 
  #32  
Old 07-05-2008, 07:08 PM
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Well there we have it, good job J!. A picture is worth a thousnad words. Sorry I can'T post pictures here. I seem to have puter problems. I see your adjuster is in front. Seems I said it was to the rear, (crow can taste good with seasonings) I was wrong . Man I hope thats the last time. I learned though that in the book I have 58-65 that the top anchor pin is adjustable. How about that??? I will check on my 54 and see if it applies to it as well. Kurt G. Y-blocks rule.
 
  #33  
Old 07-05-2008, 10:40 PM
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It's a funny thing guys, but I'm really not very impressed with the Ford Documentation anyway.

You just have to look in too many different places to get the correct big picture.

Before I took the 51s wheels off this morning, I looked at the brake section in the Chiltons, the Motors Truck Manual, my 66 Ford Book (that I keep for the 390 specs and rear end maint), and my manual for my 2002 Ranger.

The Chiltons picture was too old for me to make out. The Motors picture was a direct lift from the Ford Shop Manual - where the shoes appear to be equal in size. The 66 Book had a very nice drawing as did the 2002 manual both showing small shoe forward.

But I double checked, and I'm going to try and take a picture of it so I can post it....The Illistartions Manual and the Chassis Parts Catalogue drawings both show the small shoe in the back. Maybe I was just mis-interpreting those from the wrong perspective.

But here is the thing that really busts my chops....NOWHERE, not in one of any of those manuals did it designate which SIZE shoe was primary or secondary. Only that the primary went forward. AND, every installation proceedure in EVERY one of those manuals, was almost a WORD for WORD lift from the earliest one. It's just like replacing a horn relay and some voltage regulators. The hook up instructions are: put the wires where they were on the old one - but what if you didn't have an OLD ONE!

Reason that gripes me? If I hadn't known and trusted the mechanic that put the shoes on the 51, and completely trusted that they were put on correctly, I'd look at the catalogues and curse the previous owner for putting the shoes on my truck on backwards!

Oh well, Glad it's sorted out - that's why we all do this here is to learn! Even if it's the hard way!

J!
 
  #34  
Old 07-05-2008, 10:44 PM
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I really appreciate y'all helping me sort this out. I guess I need to remove the drums tomorrow and turn the shoes around. I really appreciate the help.

Thanks!
 
  #35  
Old 07-06-2008, 03:29 AM
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Hi Again,

I just wanted to show all of you this so you didn't think I was smokin' bad dope or something. This is the reason I was so insistant earlier about small shoe in back.

All of the drawings in the Illustrations Catalogue and Chassis Parts Catalogue (and they are the same drawings between the two books) that show a larger and smaller shoe, have the smaller shoe listed as Part Number 2022. 2022 is the part number for the secondary shoe in ALL the Ford truck brakes 48-56. (I scanned this one because it fit on the scanner better. It is of a 48-51 F3 Front Brake. The 56 F-350 brake has two top springs like in my previous pictures) All the drawings for all models that show a smaller shoe, list it as the secondary/back shoe.

This is a direct contradiction to the drawings out of my 1966 Ford and 2002 Ranger Shop Manauals which show the small shoe on the front of exactly the same "bendix type" brake as is on my 51 F1 in front, and the 66 Ford Rear Axel I have in the back of the F1. (the brake drawing below is different only because it is single spring, the dual spring types for other models show the same thing shoe wise.)

Very Interesting - something to remember for the future! .. Take a look!



Best,
Julie
 
  #36  
Old 07-06-2008, 06:25 AM
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Julie
The illustration you posted is of the Lockheed style brakes which Ford used in years prior to switching to the Bendix.
Both shoes are anchored seperately at the bottom and have the only force applied to the shoes is the force applied by the wheel cylinder piston unlike on the Bendix system.
The Lockheed brakes do use a longer front (primary) shoe.
In the past it was common for brake shoes to have PRI. or SEC. stamped on the edge of the lining but I have not seen that in recent years. Masy still be on some but I have not noticed it.

The late '40's and early 50's is when Ford was changing between the two systems and not all applications in the same years which adds to confusion in the books. Many times the illustrations are not correct for all applications that they try to include in the text.

Richard
 
  #37  
Old 07-06-2008, 01:25 PM
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Yep I understand...But point was, and I mentioned this, that ALL the brakes shown with large and small shoe had small one in the back. As mentioned I just picked this illustration for ease of copy.
 
  #38  
Old 07-06-2008, 02:15 PM
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Julie, if it makes you feel better my '56 shop manual also has an illustration that shows the longer shoe as being the front one. I'd post it, but I don't have a scanner.
 
  #39  
Old 07-06-2008, 05:26 PM
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Yep this is a weird one. But here is why I changed my stance.

When I was looking at the book, All the pictures of ALL of the different types of brakes - Bendix, Lockheed, Wagner, or Timken - with large and small shoes -ALL showed the small shoe in back. The picture of the F1 (C type) and your F-350 (Y type) brakes were not clear.

But, because ALL the pictures that had the smaller shoe showed it in the rear, AND there were NO pictures at all that showed it in the front, I made the reasonable (but wrong) conclusion that in these types of brakes, if there was a small shoe it also should go in the back LACKING ANY EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY.

I mean if you think about it, these things aren't the Space Shuttle, they have 5 moving parts - two shoes, two pistons, and a drum. The drum turns all the same on all the same brakes. Albeit perhaps by different hardware, all the brakes shown in these drawings are anchored on the bottom and actuated on the top. So the actual physics of the braking motion is THE SAME FOR ALL TYPES.

So when the other guys said "whoa wait a sec...." I guess it was time to confirm the conclusion by finding something concrete that supported it, or that supported the other statement.

And looking on in other pubs, and looking at an actual set provided the proof to support the other conclusion.

But here's one more interesting thought to this analysis: I think it's possible that back in 1951 or 1956, the shoes WERE THE SAME SIZE like the other pictures show. And in an effort to build shoes that are more applicable to different cars, the manufacturers have gone to universal large and small (because most cars use big and small) pairing knowing it wouldn't make a difference in performance, possibly just wear.

Or, maybe they just redesigned them to large and small based on experience with the equal sized ones, and their systems that had large and small.

So in short, the 55 year old pictures we have support the product that was used 55 years ago, but our pictures stayed the same when the product changed. (Ford used to publish "Change" and "Revision" notices to its manual holders if requested or on the Ford Publications Distribution Lists).

I always learn so much here - thanks for YOUR support. In 45K miles when you replace those brakes, if only the small shoe is worn out, flip them back around, and get back to me so I can flip mine back around too - tee hee.

J!

PS, I'd still do that F-Series Pucker Factor Reduction Parking Lot Proof Test I described earlier.
 
 
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