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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

Brakes halfway releasing

 
  #16  
Old 07-02-2008, 07:00 AM
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If your shoes anchor at the top and can float at the bottom the long shoe should be at the rear. This may or may not be contributing to your problem but will effect how your brakes work and how well the shoes wear.
Also I have seen brake shoes of this type that the area that contacts the anchor was not in the right place and positioned the shoe to high causing the top of the shoe to be too close to or touching the drum when retracted to the anchor. When the brakes are applied the shoe is pushed away from the anchor and free to center itself. On mine I used a round file to remove a little from the top of the half circle area that contacts the anchor and let the shoe move down a bit and they work fine. This does not have any effect on the working of the brakes as the front shoe is not in contact with the anchor when braking. only when the shoes are retracted.
Richard
 
  #17  
Old 07-02-2008, 08:53 AM
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That's no fun...

Originally Posted by Julies Cool F1 View Post
Alright LT!!!!!!


My dad taught me to lay the parts out on the ground in the configuration they were in when installed. Now also, I take a digital picture before disassembly - saved me many times.

Julie
Aw phooey! Just toss all the parts in a bucket of solvent for two weeks and then dip them out one at a time and put then on. It will all work out, and it's a lot more fun. Besides, anybody can do it the easy way.
 
  #18  
Old 07-02-2008, 08:21 PM
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How bout a collapsing brake hose?? Sometimes, tho rarely, the hose separates inner plies from outer plies and collapses the inner plies so the fluid won't bleed off the cylinder.
 
  #19  
Old 07-02-2008, 08:34 PM
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Alright. Took the truck out for a drive, and the noise seems to be gone.

52 F3, you say the short shoe goes up front? The service manual I have seems to illustrate the longer shoe going in front. Can anyone clarify for me? Right now, they're installed with the long shoe in front.
 
  #20  
Old 07-02-2008, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 52 F3 View Post
If your shoes anchor at the top and can float at the bottom the long shoe should be at the rear. Richard
Hi LT I can clerify,

He's right, but I don't think what he is saying applies to your brakes.

Here is the more formal explanation: The primary (large) brake shoe is placed first in line from the actuating POINT in the direction of travel of the drum.

So you are both correct. What Richard snuck in on you was that in his scenario, the brakes are anchored on the top and float on the bottom. (gotta watch that Richard every minute!) Could be a big truck or boosted brake thing! But an excellent point to have you look at!

What most of us have is shoes that are anchored on the bottom (with the adjuster and spring), and float on the top (ie it sits on the pin and top mounted hydraulic actuation lifts shoe off pin - upper half of the shoes move more).

If you have the large shoe on the front on both front wheels, and your wheel cylinders are on the TOP half of the backing plate, your shoes are installed correctly.

But, how did it work? No noise..... but did they stop you ok? You lived!!!!! Tell us!

Excited!!!!!!!

J!
 
  #21  
Old 07-03-2008, 07:03 AM
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From your description it sounds like your truck has the Bendix style brakes. If it is a 56 F-350 it should.
Based on that .
Bendix style brakes are considered self energizing. The wheel cylinder moves the top of the shoes out to the drum and the rotation of the drum causes the front shoe to try to rotate with the drum forcing the rear shoe into tighter contact with the drum. In this type system the front shoe is the primary and the rear is the secondary. Since the rear shoe does more braking than the front one it is the longer (has more wear surface) shoe.
The brakes used on earlier Fords anchored each shoe at the bottom and the force of the cylinder pushing the shoes out at the top was the only force acting on the shoes to apply them. This type brakes uses the long shoe on the front.
Where the long shoe goes is dependent on what type brake set up your truck has.

Richard
 
  #22  
Old 07-03-2008, 04:55 PM
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Brakes Halfway Releasing

You Could Have A Bad Rubber Brake Hose Going To That Wheel,it Could Be Collapsed Enough That The Pressure Can't Release.i Had This Problem On A 1987 Aerostar Van. George
 
  #23  
Old 07-03-2008, 07:42 PM
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Well, the truck stops great and the noise is gone. However, I'm still confused on which shoe goes where. Julie is correct, my truck has the single piston wheel cylinder and anchor pin on top, and the adjuster on the bottom. However, I seem to be reading that you both say the longer shoe goes in different positions in that system. I'm probably just misreading it, but I want to be sure.
 
  #24  
Old 07-03-2008, 11:26 PM
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No LT you are just fine and set up fine.

We are all saying the same thing just diffferently. Big shoe goes on front with Bendix system (floats on top/wheel cylinder in the upper half...)

Truck drives fine, truck stops fine, truck no langer makes noise. If it isn't broke anymore....

One thing you might want to do, if for no other reason than peace of mind, is take the thing out to the local stadium parking lot and take it up to speed (start slow at first) and stomp on those brakes a few times. Lock them up even. I'd also do the reverse road dance tapping the brakes between runs. IOW: proof test the fix!

If there's a problem, use your gears and parking brake if necessary.

J!

OBTW: CONGRATS ON SOLVING THE PROBLEM!
 
  #25  
Old 07-04-2008, 12:49 AM
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Hey guys, The long shoe goes on rear, short on front. This helps amplify the wrap-up action of the brakes. This will use the front shoe push the rear into full contact. As for the backing plate. When changing shoes you should use something to smooth down the "S" shape groove it has developed. Back when I was wrenchin' for a living I used a little drill operated stone to smoth it down. Then I'd use a dab of the silver lithium grease on the 6 contact points on backing plate. Use the same grease on the adjuster threads. The adjuster star-wheel will go to the back of the unit(if I remember correctly). When I got my truck it had a simulair problem. Both short shoes on one side of truck, long shoes on other. I had some weird grooves on backing plate. Sorry to ramble. Kurt G. Y-blocks rule.
 
  #26  
Old 07-04-2008, 06:40 AM
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Bendix syatem = Short shoe in front.
 
  #27  
Old 07-05-2008, 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Kurt G. View Post
Hey guys, The long shoe goes on rear, short on front. .

According to the Shop Manual Brake Assemblies Instillation Proceedure, it specifically states that the FRONT SHOE is the primary for "Single Anchor Self Energizing" brakes used on this truck. It's anchored on the BOTTOM and floats off the TOP.

If you want back up to that, look on page 25 of the "1948 thru 1956 Ford Truck Parts and Accessories Illistrations Catalogue," it specifically designates Brake Shoe - Part Number 2218 with Brake Lining - Part Number 2021 - ie the larger shoe/lining, as the PRIMARY/FRONT shoe. Further it shows Shoe P/N 2219 with the smaller Liner P/N 2022 on the BACK.

That's what the book shows - maybe I'll go out and pull off the wheel and take a picture of my brakes to be sure. If That's wrong then I will throw myself prostate and beg forgiveness.

But, he's already assembled and driven the truck with the large shoe/liner on the front, identified that he had the wrong springs on it, and now it works fine - at least I think that's what I am reading.

If you guys have a manual or a resource that shows a brake system that is installed on a 56 F-350 (model Y) that shows that the primary (large) shoe is mounted on the back side, or for that matter floats on the bottom then how about referencing it so we can all learn something different.

J!!
 
  #28  
Old 07-05-2008, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LiftTech View Post

The brake shoes anchor at the top, at the wheel cylinder, but not at the bottom. They simply have the adjuster and return spring.


The misunderstanding may be in what type brake set up is on the truck.
I don't have a 1956 F-350 to look at but according to the original post this would be a Bendix system. This system is designed to have the short primary shoe and is still quite common today on many vehicles.

Ford used Lockheed designed brakes from '39 through the late fortys and they anchored at the bottom and the primary (front) shoe was long.

Having the primary and secondary shoes switched will cause no particular problems with the brakes except to cause the rear shoe to wear out first as it does more of the braking.
 
  #29  
Old 07-05-2008, 10:23 AM
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I must admit that I do not have a shop manual for the stated years. I gave that one to my dad last winter when he bought his 49 chev fleetline. The manual I have is motors truck repair and covers 1958-65. It says that Bendix duo-servo "has lining on secondary (rear) shoe is longer than the primary (front) shoe." The illistration is the same as my 54 F100.
As long an the shoes are the same on each side even if backwards, from what I typed, the truck will stop fine. If they were as on mine from PO than more wear on the short shoe side of truck, also had brake pull. thats why I broke out the tool to do my brake job. I found the drums with rear shoes short had oversized drums.
The main thing is that the noise is gone and brakes work good.
Kurt G. Y-blocks rule.
 
  #30  
Old 07-05-2008, 03:04 PM
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Well, guys, we can end any differences of opinion now----I'd like my crow well done please!

I looked at the books again last night, and also looked in the Motors Truck Manual (where did you find the statement about the larger shoe?), and something in the back of my mind was unsettled.

There is no substitute for reality. So I went out this morning and pulled off both front and rear (I have a 9 3/8" rear from a 65 Big Ford) with camera in hand - just to be sure.

Ok, READY?

I humbly and forceably throw...THROW myself prostate in front of all on this thread and beg forgiveness for passing "Bum Gouge."

On my truck - the 51 - The PRIMARY/FRONT brake shoe is the SMALL shoe.
Also on the 65 9 3/8 rear brakes, The PRIMARY/FRONT brake shoe is the SMALL shoe.

Pictures don't lie - Julie Does! Here they are:





Sorry about the misguidance LiftTech...Small Shoe on the front.

J!
 

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