Also our manual/owners guide supplement does not state "to not add oil until below the minimum".

Ours states; "Maintain the oil level between ADD and OPERATING RANGE on the dipstick by adding oil as required."
I don't interpret that as Ford endorsing or not seeing an issue with a 2 quart "underfill". I believe most owners would prefer to run their engines between the middle of the operating range and the top.

 

I stand corrected on the exact manual language. As you said, it states that you do not have to add if it is anywhere between the minimum and the maximum. This clearly means that Ford is stating up to a 2 quart underfill will not cause a problem and you do not NEED to add unless it is at the add mark. It does state that filling beyond the maximum can cause problems.

I am glad we do agree on your last statement - that most prefer to operate between mid and full - NOT overfilled (which 15 quarts would do for many of us - regardless of an assumed inconsistent production run in dipsticks or tubes). I personally believe the issue is in how much Ford estimated drains out, not with a mass produced component.

It wouldn't be the first time that operation at a minimum fluid level was RECOMMENDED by Ford (can we all say "RECALL FOR THE COOLANT LEVEL STICKER"??).

Lastly - their are four main reasons for oil fluid minimum level requirements:
1. Volume so that oil additives, fluid properties, and contaminants are in proper ranges for a specified operating range (miles).
2. Enough supply volume and suction pressure (depending on the type of pump) for proper oil distribution from the pump.
3. Volume to ensure that peak temperatures are not exceeded (even this one is minor since the oil cooler is designed to be the main player in temperature control - not volume for the purpose of being a heat sink)
4. Enough volume that typical system leaks will not quickly endanger safe operation.

Operating at 14 quart refills endangers NONE of these. Even operation at the minimum would not cause significant issues. We WISELY maintain higher than minimum to keep from extended operation below minimum IF unexpected problems with leaks do occur.

As in the past - these are my opinions - feel free to keep the debate alive .........

 

This got a lot deeper than I thought it would. To reiterate, I just changed my oil for the first time with 14 qts (leaving the dipstick at the max line), always have done 15 over 74,000 miles. Not being a mechanic kinda guy, I read the owner's manual and put in 15. Looking back at my 3 rear main seals gone bad, and a CAC tube leak, could there be a connection?

 

I think I'll ask my trusty Ford diesel mechanic about this one since he is touted as the best in the state, (they send him trucks from all over when the others can't figure it out). I'm going to see him Friday about an Oil leak. I'm glad I ran across this post. I wonder if putting one less quart in would improve your milage? I've heard of running a quart low in racing engines to improve horsepower.

 

Well, we always refill with 15 and have not had any leaks in over 100,000 miles. As long as you properly removed the oil filter BEFORE replacing the oil pan drain plug I strongly doubt you caused any issues.

 

"Originally Posted by origcharger
Also our manual/owners guide supplement does not state "to not add oil until below the minimum".

Ours states; "Maintain the oil level between ADD and OPERATING RANGE on the dipstick by adding oil as required."
I don't interpret that as Ford endorsing or not seeing an issue with a 2 quart "underfill". I believe most owners would prefer to run their engines between the middle of the operating range and the top."

The manual language does state to "To maintain the oil level between ADD and OPERATING Range on the dipstick by ADDING oil as required."

I would note it does say anything about SUBTRACTING oil as required.
I also don't believe it states "filling beyond the maximum can cause problems" but rather something like "overfilling may increase oil consumption".

Our good natured debate boils down to how overfilling is defined;
Your opinion is its overfilled if its above the operating range on the dipstick.
Mine is its overfilled if you refilled it with more than 15 quarts after a proper filter change.

 

The time limit for editing has expired so I quote my self to make corrections;

I meant to type;
"I would note it does NOT say anything about subtracting oil as required."

And what the manual actually says in regards to checking oil level with dipstick is; "Do not overfill. If the oil level exceeds OPERATING RANGE, oil consumption may result."

 

Took me awhile to find it, but I knew I had seen it ............

Service message from Ford:
Oil Level Check Tip:
When checking the oil level on the 6.0, the vehicle must be on a level surface and the dipstick must be fully seated into the tube to ensure an accurate reading. Do not add oil if the level is above the "MIN" line on the dipstick. Broadcast Message 1512, 1574.

By this it is clear - if the level is a "smidgeon" above minimum, FORD is OK w/ it. Not to split hairs, but this is definitely advocating operation w/ the system 1.999+ quarts below maximum.

 

Ok, your theory is "the issue is in how much Ford estimated drains out."


My theory is the dipsticks are not calibrated for people who are fanatical about their trucks like many on this board, they are calibrated for boneheads. There are many ways to screw up when checking oil with a dipstick and dumping in oil based on the percieved dipstick reading. The service message you posted outlines 2 of them; "the vehicle must be on a level surface and the dipstick must be fully seated into the tube to ensure an accurate reading". The owners guides also say engine should be warmed up to operating temperature and then shut down for 20 minutes for an acccurate reading. The service message says nothing about the warm up and 20 minute wait, can we assume the service message guideline allows you to skip the 20 minute wait as many won't or don't do?

 

Iam a mechanic in ny and have always used 4 gallons which is 16 quarts of rotella in all my customers trucks my own personal truck also gets 16 and its always on the full mark on the stick and i also change my 6.0s oil every 4000 miles just because i love what i own and the oil in my mustang is every 1500 miles on 20w50 mobil1

 

so uh when is this going to be taken to pay per view?

i never thought i would be quoting my father but "every man for his own poison" or "any man convinced against his will is still unconvinced"

 

[quote=mxer0022;6299848]so uh when is this going to be taken to pay per view?
quote]

Mondays are generally not much fun for me at work, but you made my day w/ your post!

As for me - I am doing a Roberto Duran .................... no mas.

The 16 quart post was too much (what next 17+?) ........ (but still firm on my own convictions and proving the wisdom of your quotes!)

 

If one trusts the dipstick, wouldn't 16 quarts or whatever amount puts you on the full line or add line be correct regardless as to what the manufacturer's specified refill capacity is? What if more drained out than Ford estimated?

 

Well, I wanted opinions from the experts, and they certainly came. Now here is my procedure: I put in a Fumoto drain valve, so I get my wife to help me and here goes: In goes 14 quarts, sit and wait a spell, check for leaks. Now warm up engine, then let it sit for 20 mins. Check dipstick, fully seated, put on cheaters soes I can see it better...if above the minimum line, I get back underneath truck and drain off some oil into one of the empties, and repeat above with wife continually checking dipstick. Keep doing this until just above the minimum line, eventually pop a beer and be happy!!!

Sarge, that one was for you.

Thanks to everyone, I learned a lot and gonna have to sign up as a supporter. You all are great.

 

For the ultimate in comfort and satisfaction of a job well done, might I suggest you take advantage of Mrs. danocross' cat like reflexes and have her operate the Fumoto whilst you sip on the Corona and monitor the dipstick?