2004 F250 PSD 6.0L stalling, loss of throttle response, won't start, etc.
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05-27-2008, 04:26 PM
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2004 F250 PSD 6.0L stalling, loss of throttle response, won't start, etc.
2004 F250 Powerstroke Diesel 6.0L
90,xxx miles
Symptoms
Peculiarities
Specifically I wonder if this is a cracked quick release fitting that allows oil pressure to fall after the engine heats up and oil viscoscity thins out with the heat. Once the engine cools down sufficiently to thicken the oil, the HPOP finally gets enough oil pressure to allow the engine to fire up again.
Logically this seems sound to me but what do the rest of you think?
I'm just trying to document this as best as possible in the hope that someone else in a similar situation may benefit from the troubleshooting process and save themselves some time and aggravation.
90,xxx miles
Symptoms
Within the past 10,000 miles the truck has begun exhibiting the following problems, sometimes in conjunction with one another and sometimes just independantly of one another:
Work Done To Date- Stalling on the road at low speed / low engine RPM.
- Throttle pedal becomes completely unresponsive. Stabbing the throttle pedal repeatedly sometimes causes it to return to operation. Sometimes the engine must be shut off and re-started to return throttle pedal to operation.
- Rough, surging, stumbling idle at rest.
- Will crank but not fire occasionally. Problem has become worse as of late. Repeated attempts at starting the engine usually result in success after much, much retrying.
Local Ford Diesel technician replaced the EBP sensor, replaced the EGR valve and re-flashed computer with latest software -- all under warranty. Problems still persist.
Peculiarities
We have tried driving the truck with the EGR valve disconnected and with it connected, both at the technician's request.
With the EGR valve disconnected the truck usually starts fine but still stalls out at low RPM / low speed. Fuel economy is also cut by nearly 50% with the EGR valve disconnected. Really couldn't afford to keep driving the truck like this.
Technician speculated that if the truck continued to die with the EGR valve unplugged, it meant that the computer or fuel pump might be bad. ????
It also seems that the stalling problem manifests after the truck has been driven at highway speeds (65-70mph) for at least a period of 20-30 minutes. Stalling usually happens as soon as we make an exit off of the highway and begin to slow down to make exit. As in foot off the throttle pedal. Engine RPM drops then stumbles then stalls.
I have been doing a lot of reading both here on FTE and also on the Ford Diesel Technician Society (aka Diesel Doctors) site and cannot help but wonder if this is a problem with the HPOP or ICP system.With the EGR valve disconnected the truck usually starts fine but still stalls out at low RPM / low speed. Fuel economy is also cut by nearly 50% with the EGR valve disconnected. Really couldn't afford to keep driving the truck like this.
Technician speculated that if the truck continued to die with the EGR valve unplugged, it meant that the computer or fuel pump might be bad. ????
It also seems that the stalling problem manifests after the truck has been driven at highway speeds (65-70mph) for at least a period of 20-30 minutes. Stalling usually happens as soon as we make an exit off of the highway and begin to slow down to make exit. As in foot off the throttle pedal. Engine RPM drops then stumbles then stalls.
Specifically I wonder if this is a cracked quick release fitting that allows oil pressure to fall after the engine heats up and oil viscoscity thins out with the heat. Once the engine cools down sufficiently to thicken the oil, the HPOP finally gets enough oil pressure to allow the engine to fire up again.
Logically this seems sound to me but what do the rest of you think?
I'm just trying to document this as best as possible in the hope that someone else in a similar situation may benefit from the troubleshooting process and save themselves some time and aggravation.
#2
05-27-2008, 06:19 PM
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#3
05-28-2008, 02:07 PM
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Diesel service tech at local dealership called to let me know that he cannot get the truck to die or exhibit the problems I described. I suggested that he take it and drive the hell out of it, 30+ miles of sustained highway speeds to get the engine good and hot, and datalog it the entire time.
He's planning on doing that next and will have his service manager take it and drive it a lot tomorrow.
Technician did say that what I was describing sounds like a high pressure oil leak.
He's planning on doing that next and will have his service manager take it and drive it a lot tomorrow.
Technician did say that what I was describing sounds like a high pressure oil leak.
#4
05-28-2008, 02:15 PM
Rough idle,SURGE and stumble at idle sound like classic ICP problems to me.If the truck doesn't stall when it is very hot I wouldn't suspect a hpo leak. A hpo leak will cause a hot stall no matter the rpm or highway speed and a hot restart is out of the question.Your 04 doesn't have the problematic sct fitting,I had a hpo leak at an o and d ring no stumbles no surge just lack of power followed by a stall and a very long wait(sometimes 3+ hrs) to restart.Your pump may be packing it in though.
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05-28-2008, 03:24 PM
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Yeah, he explained that my truck doesn't have the SCT fitting but also wondered about the pump going bad. Especially bothersome to him was the fact that when it stalls, it will not always restart immediately but sometimes requires the truck to sit for 5-10 minutes before it will start again.
I'm really hoping that their datalogging sessions give them sometime to work from. I guess we'll see.
The technician was concerned that the presence of my A-pillar gauges would cause the Ford Engineer to void my warranty.
When I bought the truck, I quickly installed an ISS Pro gauge kit complete with Exhaust Gas Temp, Trans Temp and Boost gauge just to monitor the vitals when towing. The truck has never had a tuner or chip installed, so I really don't see why that would be an issue.
I'm really hoping that their datalogging sessions give them sometime to work from. I guess we'll see.
The technician was concerned that the presence of my A-pillar gauges would cause the Ford Engineer to void my warranty.
When I bought the truck, I quickly installed an ISS Pro gauge kit complete with Exhaust Gas Temp, Trans Temp and Boost gauge just to monitor the vitals when towing. The truck has never had a tuner or chip installed, so I really don't see why that would be an issue.
#6
05-30-2008, 09:59 AM
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Got my truck back from the local dealership last night. The Diesel technician was finally able to replicate the stalling / rough idle / failure to start problems that I had been experiencing and caught it all on their datalogging computer.
Replaced the following under warranty:
Total cost, out the door, was $100 + tax.
Truck seems to be running a LOT better and so far I have not had any problems with it stalling, running rough or refusing to start. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that these were the culprits!
Replaced the following under warranty:
- ICP sensor
- IPR valve
Total cost, out the door, was $100 + tax.
Truck seems to be running a LOT better and so far I have not had any problems with it stalling, running rough or refusing to start. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that these were the culprits!
#7
05-30-2008, 10:10 AM
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Just make sure that along with the ICP that got changed the harness/plug for the ICP also got changed. I even put some rubber hose around the big wiring harness at the ICP because I was having the same problems stalling, rough idle, would not restart after it had been driven about 10 miles when it stalled out and would not restart if I shut it off sometimes.
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#9
05-25-2016, 07:20 PM
Im having a similar problem. Except mine stopped runnimg wouldnt restart snd blew oil all over the top of the engine. A few days prior i notice a small oil leakage but never found the source. Could this be the ICP? And maybe be a dumb question but is the ICP also the oil pressure sensor? I notice the connection had exposed wires.
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