Well first, are we talking truck or car format? Second, which 4 bangers are we comparing here? I don't think Honda has a 2.3L like Ford does. Third, we talking stock, or after market beefed up engines? Turbos or not? Just need some info for a fair comparison here.

James

 

I'm talking about the best 4 from Ford and the best 4 from Honda.

 

Well in that case I'd still take a Ford 2.3L I4. But thats me just cause I've researched the 2.3L and I know where to find parts and what I can do with it too. But I guess its all in the beholder.

James

 

Errr... no offense to Fords, I love Fords.. but I trust Ford to build me a damned good V8.. I really don't like 4bangers in any of the domestics...

Lets see... Honda Engines.. Why are they better than 4 cylinder Ford Engines? Well, for one, no domestic 4 cylinder can achieve 100 hp/liter stock... no other domestic has a VTEC system or any system that changes the cam profile at different RPMs, giving a much better horsepower/torque curve... the aftermarket is FULL of parts for Honda 4 cylinders.. look how many young kids out there are driving Honda Civics with 1.6L engines wishing they could go fast? And look how sporty the Type R Integras already are, WITHOUT mods... who wouldn't want to improve upon THAT? The B18C5 is the VTEC motor used in the type R integras.. say you... swapped this motor into a Honda CRX.. thats 200 horsepower. out of a car that weighs 2000-2300 lbs... my truck weighs well over two tons.. to match that kind of power to weight ratio I'd need 400 horses.. am I going to make that? Yeah, with a few mods, on my -V8-... but probably with my 4 banger? No.. and I know its not too hard to get alot more horses out that Honda for not too much..

My personal opinion.. if anyone has any other input I'd love to see it.

James

 

Good points James. And yes, I'm sure we'd all take that V8 over a 4 banger any day but we don't all have that option. And yes, you're right about teens building up the Honda motors and its easy for them to do. And yes the parts are available out there, but how many of these places are true Honda building specialists? Just curious. I know that Ford after market places for 4 bangers may not jump right out at ya but those that do exist seem to trully specialize in the engine and nothing more. Where if you look at the Ford 2.3L you can go to someone like Esslinger Engineering and talk with guys who specialize in this engine. They've been around for however long and done nothing but specialize on one engine trying to figure out every tiny trick to making it perform better. Can stroke it to 2.85L or 3.0L depending on which block. There is so much we can do to both engines, but to truly compare the two, I'd say we'd really need to put them in the same vehicle, build them up as much as ya want, and race em. As for 4 cylinders not making 100hp stock, well last time I looked at some charts I thought the 2.3 was just over 100hp but I could be wrong. But how much of it actually being transfered to the wheels, who knows. Hehe. Anyways, glad to hear your words of wisdom on the 4 bangers and one day we may actually know for sure. Until then James, have a great day and thanks again.

James

 

Since Honda doesn't make trucks and this is a section for discussing Ford truck 4 cylinder engines isn't the point moot?

 

I'd say its a good topic. Comparing the two engines isn't just about Honda vs Ford 4 cylinders. It shows the progress Ford (and other domestics) have made towards developing products to fit the American people. 30 years ago, I wouldn't trust anything that wasn't a big block V8 in my car. Everything had V8s, including two ton family cars and trucks. But these days? With the Focus competing in markets against import Sport Compacts, and with Ford developing not only 8 cylinders, but well built 6s and 4s as well, I won't be ashamed to say I've got a 4 banger in my domestic. Know what I mean?


>but how many of these places are true
>Honda building specialists? Just curious.

Import cars have been around forever, and have always had small displacement engines. The engines reflect on the Japanese themselves. That many people in that small of a country? They learn to do things very efficiently, and in a very small space. In Japan, the wealthiest families have yards the size of ours. Their engines are teh same way. They make small engines to fit into small spaces, and get the most they can out of them. And even though 90% of the kids with imports these days swap in an exhaust, cold air intake, white face gauges, and a Type R symbol and think their cars are gonna dust a 5.0 Mustang (its gotta be the 50 horsepower boost from the Type R symbol and the aerodynamics and downforce of that too expensive body kit), there ARE very many Honda Engine Specialists around. Check out the Import Drag Racing... their 10 second cars start off as 30 mpg four cylinders.. Most of them are built off the popular B18s or B16s put in the Si or Type R Hondas. It isn't unlikely anymore to see Honda CRXs with over 300 horsepower at the local drag strip runnin' with the guys in the late 60s American Muscle Cars.

>As for 4 cylinders not making 100hp
>stock, well last time I looked at some charts I thought the
>2.3 was just over 100hp but I could be wrong. But how much
>of it actually being transfered to the wheels, who knows.

Well I'll be damned I never thought a domestic 4 would make 100 horsepower per liter... but I should've thought about it before I said it.. the new Focus competes with Hondas.. so these 2.3s stock make around 230 horses? Regardless of if its to the wheels or not, impressive.

>Hehe. Anyways, glad to hear your words of wisdom on the 4
>bangers and one day we may actually know for sure.
>Until then James, have a great day and thanks again.

You too, James. I'd say I learned a bit from this post. Sometimes you get surprised every now and then.. its alot like when I went to www.inliners.org or whatever and saw the hemi inline 6 running 12s int he quarter in a late 60s dodge.. nearly stock.. lol.. anyways catch you later! Thanks

 

look at the numbers the s2000 has the highest HP rating for an N/A engine. it's something like 240hp

then look at ours. 100 hp

look at the cost of ours vs. theirs

it all boils down to; you get what you pay for. you could get our 2.3's around 240 hp but you have to spend the money. that and it wouldn't idle worth crap

also look at the torque ratings. i don't really care that my truck only had 100 hp because it also has 135 ft-lbs of torque. compare it to the run of the mill civic with something like 130 hp 110 ft-lbs
and those civics are DOHC. i'll take torque over hp anyday.

 

>look at the numbers the s2000 has the highest HP rating for
>an N/A engine. it's something like 240hp

True, but do you want to spend all your time at
9000rpm??

>it all boils down to; you get what you pay for. you could
>get our 2.3's around 240 hp but you have to spend the money.
>that and it wouldn't idle worth crap

240hp isn't too difficult to reach with a 2.3/2.5L
with a turbo, and Ford built them for us...

>i'll take torque over hp anyday.

ObAOL, Me too...

Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)

 

>>look at the numbers the s2000 has the highest HP rating for
>>an N/A engine. it's something like 240hp
>
>True, but do you want to spend all your time at
>9000rpm??

Well, it gets 240hp at 8300rpm (which isn't close to the redline yet) and isn't hard to get to when you are putting this much power through a stock 6-speed manual.

>>it all boils down to; you get what you pay for. you could
>>get our 2.3's around 240 hp but you have to spend the money.
>>that and it wouldn't idle worth crap
>
>240hp isn't too difficult to reach with a 2.3/2.5L
>with a turbo, and Ford built them for us...
>
This may be true, but the stock Honda S2000 gets that 240hp without a turbo (hence the N/A) and gets it out of a 2.0L not a 2.3 or 2.5 You can get well over that 240 if you put a turbo on Honda's little 2.0L Also, Honda is getting 26mpg on this 240hp engine, I wonder how many we would get on Ford's 2.3L with a turbo. As much as I love Ford's awesome V8s, when it comes to I4s, Honda has us beat hands down. I have to agree completely with Syzle and aksniper on this one.

 

Also, in case you are wondering, the first turbo I could find for an S2000 got 360hp. Now if you would rather torque over hp then you would rather an S2000 because it has more torque, too.

 

>Also, in case you are wondering, the first turbo I could
>find for an S2000 got 360hp. Now if you would rather torque
>over hp then you would rather an S2000 because it has more
>torque, too.

Yeah, but can you haul a 1/2 ton of topsoil with it??

Steve & the Rockette
'63 F100
'68 F100
'72 Capri 2L
'73 Capri 2.6L V6
'73 MG B GT 2.6L V6(Ford)
'98 Contour SVT 2.5L V6 (Mods)
'01 ZX2 (No Mods yet)

 

Ever hear of the Thunderbird Turbo Coupe? They used a 2.3 in them, and were rated at 215 horsepower. They actually put out more, but Ford didn't want to make the Mustang GT look bad, which was putting out 225 at the time. They were a very good handling car because of the pretty even weight distribution front to rear. I friend of mine used to have a 2.3 in a Pinto. He told me it would pull the front wheels, but I didn't believe him. I went to his house one day after work. He fired that thing up, and it sounded great. He took it out in the road, and he punched it from a dead stop. He pulled the tires about 6 inches off the road.
Since the 2.3 HAS been around for such a long time, it is really not a high tech engine. The Honda is. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

 

Yeah, thats true about the 2.3s, Isn't that what the Ford Focus drag car is based off of? The one out there runnin' 10's? Its based off a pinto engine of some sort with a turbo setup with some -massive- amount of boost. As far as torque goes, you guys are quite right, Honda doesn't go too far when it comes to torque. But then again, the applications are different. Nissan makes the SQR25DE engine (or something like that) that will be in the new Sentra SE-R... the top model has something like 185 hp, 185 lbs torque.. pretty impressive to me, and with the Nissan Z 6 speed I think it'd put a Type R Civic to shame.. but thats off the subject. As far as Ford goes, their engines are more than qualified for what the average buyer wants/needs in their cars. Ford is a grassroots company and target their products to the everyday people. Ever wonder why they never put the 351s in the mustangs in the late 80s and early 90s to put the Camaros and Firebirds to shame even if they DID get that damned vette engine? (cheaters).. because they sold more Mustangs than Camaros and Firebirds combined (I think), because not every person that buys a Mustang wants to modify it as much as the enthusiast does. Anyways, I'd go for a domestic anyday. Who wants to pay out the *** for parts? Or pay a bigger monthly payment for a similar car? Not me. As far as the domestic vs. import thing goes, hey, if my truck breaks down more, well, that just means I get to replace the broken parts with brand new high-po ones! Lol, and I can make alot of friends at the gas station, too. I'm not just a Ford Truck enthusiast, I'm an all around Ford enthusiast Alright guys, see you later =)