What's EGR worth? 1 - 2 MPG maybe? And you're saying we'll see a partial gain back from that. It also sounds like the DPF economy reductions may be reduced somewhat which is also good. Will the SCR have any negative affects on MPG? If it does nothing but improve fuel efficiency I don't know why they wouldn't be rushing this to market now.

If I were to run out of urea, could I just pee in the tank?

 

That's the joke I keep telling drivers of my test trucks. The SCR will have no negative affects on fuel economy. One of the reasons we haven't seen this technology yet is due to the lack of a distribution infrastructure for the urea. Since OTR trucks will also be using it, this problem will change for the better.

 

What's the current cost of urea? How much does your container hold, and how long does that tank last?

 

Right now, urea is high since it all has to be imported. As soon as the domestic manufacturing/distribution channels are set up, the price will come down. Our tanks are 20 gallons (OTR trucks) and are good for approx. 5000-6000 miles between fill ups depending on fuel consumption.

 

So how hard is it to produce urea? Are there any NIMBY concerns? Isn't urea also used in fertilizer which has gone up 500% in the last couple of years?

I guess instead of asking about miles per gallon, I should have asked about total cost per gallon.

 

I never understood the regen process (well I get it, but as far as emissions go). Tell me this, we went from a average 16mpg 6.0 to a 10mpg 6.4 which ford claims is b/c of the emissions/regen, ok fine, but... there is still some pollution coming out no matter what, so if were injecting the extra amount of fuel to bring us down 6mpg it still gets burnt one way or another, so if that didn't make any sense to you let me put it this way, more fuel, more emissions....right? I wonder how much ahead it really comes out. Back when gas engines first got air pumps (the extra oxygen helps burn up some gases) but in a matter of speaking you could put a giant air pump on any motor/exhaust system and pass any emissions test b/c the parts per million would be way down b/c there is so much more O2.

EGR on the other hand was a good idea, that does work. I know Ford's going to Urea to try and get there fuel milage up to get ahead of Dodge and GM for a short time. I did have an International engineer tell me that "diesel engines are going through what gas engines had to in the 80's, so were trying anything we can to make the new emissions standards", he had also mentioned that dodge is gonna be way behind here in about 2 years b/c they've been basically paying the fine to get the below par (emissions wise) diesels out there, Ford and GM on the other hand are putting all there efforts into finding a cure, maybe dodge is smarter to pay and let ford and GM do all the work and then steal it when they figure it out.

I'm a little weary of Ford making there own diesel myself. I have to work on all there gas engines and they don't think a lot of there engineering through sometimes....most of the time. I just really hope they don't screw this up. I wonder what the comp ratio is on that little engine to make that kinda HP, they better not be blowing the heads off of them like the duramaxs did.

 

more fuel but less harmful emissions, thats the big thing with the DPF's, don't like it but thats the idea with it, although my dads 6.4 gets the same mileage as my 6.0

 

Redneck,

Apparently, the Intl. engineer you spoke to didn't know his @ss from a hole in the ground. The CTD in the current Dodge Ram is already 2010 compliant. They do this by using a NOx absorber catalyst. Cummins pushed Dodge to do this because for every Dodge that is sold with the CTD, Cummins gets emissions credits to use toward their big-bore engines. It is because of these credits, that the ISX won't use SCR for 2010.

 

Rob_nc

When did dodge get CTD? I had talked to the engineer this winter, I don't pay all that much attention to dodge and chevy, so that's just what I heard. I do however know IH wants to get away from ford the first chance they get, it's kinda weird, like to rival gang members that have no idea who each other are but know they hate each other, lol. When we had both the ford and IH engineers at the shop it looked awful tense between em, they were playin the blame game on a 6.4 we had in that was knockin. The ford engineer mentioned something of Dodge going to Urea at the time.

 

Dodge has had the CTD (Cummins Turbo Diesel) for quite awhile now. A variation of it was even in the old body style.

 

Lol, I know, my bad, I thought CTD was some sort of acronym for there style of diesel emissions, lol, wow.... ok, well I'll rephrase my question to: when and how did they become 2010 compliment?

 

They became 2010 compliant as of 1/1/07. They use a NOx absorber catalyst to bring the NOx levels down to 2010 levels. The disadvantage to an absorber catalyst is it also needs to be regenerated. I'm sure it is being regenerated at the same time the dpf is, but it's still not an economical solution. They also have a finite lifespan and will have to be replaced at some point. I'm sure this point is never mentioned to a future Dodge buyer.

 

Seen on edmunds.com on Wed. Ford's Mark Feilds said the clean diesel is coming to the F150 and expedition. But that was it and also talked about hybrids coming later and will need help from goverment on getting everthing approved for those.

 

20% better fuel economy means around 19mpg right? With the price difference between diesel and gas, plus what ever the urine costs will it be worth it? Bet that's gonna be an expensive add-on too.

I'd like to see them go for one with just 200hp but getting 30mpg. Slow going when towing but fine otherwise. Did'nt all big trucks put out like 200hp 15 years ago? We got by then.

 

Interesting thing it seems like the new diesel tech closely matches the technology that powerplants been using for some time, specifically coal plants because of the waste they put out. They have used particulate filters of course, but also SCR (selective catalyst reduction) that uses ammonia injected into the flue gasses in the scrubbers. They make ammonia from urea since huge quantities of ammonia is dangerous to ship and handle. I wonder how similar these systems are. Sensors monitor NOx and and if levels get to high powerplants have to derate, same thing as SO3/4 (sulfer oxides) and sometimes its not a minor derate, we have to bring the powerplants offline if they cant get back within federal limits. This has even efected them economically, as any derate effects prices as well as having to make up the power with more costly units. Also for SCR's to work they have to maintain a higher output, if its the middle of the night and power demand is low the units with SCRs on cannot go to minimum as the SCRs require certain temperatures, so that costs us more money. Just a little tidbit from the power co.