These posts are interesting. The fact that SOME of you are actually experiencing audible "ping" makes it OBVIOUS that a number of V-10's have computer trouble in their "spark knock" loop.

Of COURSE this fellow who uses 87 in his V-10 isnt going to have an "octane ping". HIS SPARK ADVANCE CONTROLLER IS WORKING. It is doing its job, running the spark advance up to that point to take best advantage of that particular octane rating (again "flame speed") of the fuel he is using, but no higher.

Let's try it again, real slow. You CAN NOT GET OCTANE "PING" if your computer-controlled spark- advance/retard is working. The system, when working, "senses" the onset of octane "ping", and retards the spark as needed to avoid this.

As I noted earlier, the fact that some of you are noting improvements in effiency with "premium" (meaning higher octane - translation SLOWER burning fuels) suggests our engines have a high enough compression ratio to take advantage of higer octane fuels then the 87 they run perfectly well with.

At some point in time, we are going to see a "post" in here by someone who DOES have a minimal level of competence and experience to tell us whether WITH A PROPERLY RUNNING SYSTEM the added performance of using premium fuel, will off-set the increased COST of premium fuel.

Until that happens, suggest SOME of you do some reading on the BASICS so you know what you are talking about, as to compresson ratios, spark control systems, and what "octane" means in terms of basic physics and chemistry.

 

[QUOTE=6686L]These posts are interesting. The fact that SOME of you are actually experiencing audible "ping" makes it OBVIOUS that a number of V-10's have computer trouble in their "spark knock" loop.

Of COURSE this fellow who uses 87 in his V-10 isnt going to have an "octane ping". HIS SPARK ADVANCE CONTROLLER IS WORKING. It is doing its job, running the spark advance up to that point to take best advantage of that particular octane rating

At some point in time, we are going to see a "post" in here by someone who DOES have a minimal level of competence and experience to tell us whether WITH A PROPERLY RUNNING SYSTEM the added performance of using premium fuel, will off-set the increased COST of premium fuel.


What do you mean? if the engineers design the combustion chamber for a given level of performance and fuel octane...then put electronics to stop knock if it ever happens...then what performance gain...on a basically stock engine...are you going to receive from higher octane fuel? given the usual 87 we have here...and i guess i made an error..i guess its advance the timing..not retard like i said...when knock happens..sorry about that

 

[QUOTE....... i guess i made an error..i guess its advance the timing..not retard like i said...when knock happens..sorry about that[/QUOTE]

This is how you learn. By asking questions. C'mon...guys..those of you who werent lucky like some of us - should not be embarssed about their lack of knowledge. Thru no fault or brilliance of my own, I got lucky and did learn something about basic automotive technical matters - cant take any credit that I just happen to know a bit more than some of you, about this stuff.

Now - about cylinder head design. That IS a function in combustion. But the biggest design factor in getting the most out of a given octance gasoline (again...think "flame speed" - the higher the octane, the slower the fuel will burn, the less it may "ping" or go in an explosion. That's why the higher the compression, (which, of course, means higher octane fuel) the more mechanical power you get out of a motor, and the less is wasted as heat.

If our Excursion V-10's were a lower compression motor - say, lower than..oh, for sake of discussion...7.5 to one - they probably wouldn't "ping" no matter how far advanced you set off the spark plug. Obviously, the fact that SOME of you are reporting "ping", suggests these motors have a fairly high compression ratio. Again, if they had a lower compression, we couldnt get an octane "ping" even with "regular".

We can COMPENSATE, even in a higher compression ratio motor, for "fast" fuel (meaning lower octane) by RETARDING the spark. That is where our "knock sensor" devices come in. They will advance or retard to the spark to make maximum power advantage out of whatever fuel you use.

I am now satisfied that our V-10's have a high enough compression, and have a sophisticated enough knock-sensing system, that they DO take advantage of premium fuel when they sense the engine isn't pinging. Again, that being the case, the only question left is, since we obviously ARE getting more power/efficiency out of "premium" fuel, whether that increase is enough to justify the increased cost.

 

Face it. This 6686L guy is the retard here. He has demonstrated it on several other threads. If you don't fall down on the floor and proclaim his brilliance as soon as he posts, he keeps getting more insulting. It's a low self esteem thing.

 

O.K.. now that you've proved you are in a bad mood, can you also prove you have something worth-while to contribute to our knowledge...?

For example, discuss for us what triggered this childish-ness, specifically, what technical issue or sub-issue do you disagree with me on?

Hopefully, we can learn something from you. Please post something useful to helping us learn more, (so that you dont get dismissed as just a childish snert).

 

im trying not to......so lets just end this thread

 

I agree, and find it annoying too.

 

Wrong.
Damn right you can get pinging regardless if the knock sensor is working.
All you need is some ragged bit of carbon somewhere on the head to ignite the mix before the plug does.
I have pulled plenty of heads to fix this type of problem.
And this problem is as old as the gasonline engine.

 

thats what i said..every vehicle i have ever had has pinged at one time or another..usually with the lower octane fuel..but maybe 66 knows the X never will..?...not too many owners have read this thread..so not too many first had accounts..and another thing..mileage...mine has 110,000 miles..maybe his is near new?

 

Fordtruckster,Using 93 octane will not hurt your V-10 in anyway!!!!Using 93 vs 87 the computor will be able to advance the timing more before the knock sensor picks up detonation (ping) & starts to retard the timing.With more advance you should have more power & better mileage.Just make sure its a good quality unleaded fuel.I'v been a GM driveability tech for 23 years.If I could afford to run 92(thats super unleaded in AZ) I would run it all the time(more so in the summer time).Chevron is my recommended fuel.(that techron is good stuff)!!!!!

 

so....was i correct? i said retard the timing when knock occurs..but 66 said i was wrong? was i?..anyway...i used mostly chevron in my escort when i was a messenger..280,000 miles with no major issues..i alternated premium and regular..just in case it mattered..they say thier techron keeps the injectors clean...i never had a injector issue..so who knows..

 

Your right, and I know first hand you are.

I tuned my dads 03' a while back with the Diablosport "87 Octane Tune"(Canned Tune) and his truck pinged like all hell above 2800rpm. The tuner advanced the timing too much, I had to take timing out of it to get rid of the ping.

Using 89, 91, 93 and etc octane won't hurt anything but your wallet. Higher octane allows the timing to be advanced more, which is what is done for performance tuning for more power.

 

nice to see a voice of reason and competence ! Thanks for your "post".

 

"Floor it to make it stop pining"

that's some funny stuff, but dont do that! very bad thing to do, but check your fuel filter sometimes that will cause these 10s to ping, but what ever you do dont let it knock.

 

i said step on the gas..not floor it..i made it clear i never "floor it"..you can keep the v10 with 3.73 under 2000 rpm..for fuel mileage..by using the gas pedal to fool the trans into shifting into a higher gear...maybe i have a problem with the electronics..but i can make the engine ping when i do that..especially if a hill is involved...step on the pedal..a little and it will downshift...more so like normal people accelerate..i am a slow driver..and i honestly dont drive the X much..its the family car so all week the wife is shuttleing the kids to school and such..and she is a dragracer compared to me...........and i dont let it knock..