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  #31  
Old 01-16-2008, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by '66GT
Great info on the GT specs, ND!

In addition to your information, the 1966 GT group included a bright metal trim piece on the hood lip, front disk brakes, as well as a thicker sway bar unique to the A-code 289 4v. I haven't seen too many GT clones - people just don't make them vs. the more glamorous Shelby or Mach1 clones (and frankly I haven't seen too many of those floating around either). But the clones I've seen didn't have the sway bar replaced - probably one of the best giveaways b/c nobody thinks to replace it. Instead, the attention to detail is more aesthetic versus items that the general public won't likely see. However as such, these items could also be easily installed to recreate a GT.

Re. wheels - argh, you're right! I must have been thinking of something else during my post. It should in fact be 'styled' steel and not 'stainless' steel wheels.

Since all GTs came with dual exhaust, one item that's impossible or not feasible to fake is the factory installation.A large step towards confirming true GT status is to check the frame rails on either side where the exhaust hangers for the dual exhaust are located. These hangers are welded to the frame rail such that there will be a spot-weld BETWEEN the the frame and the body. This means that short of removing the body off the frame, it would be impossible to weld aftermarket hangers in the same fashion, which therfore demonstrates that a true GT's dual exhaust could only have been installed at the factory.

The confirmation of these weld points is by inserting your finger within a dime-sized cut-out near the exhaust hanger and to feel for these weld points. This is the only way that you can confirm that the dual exhaust was installed as a factory item. And once you know visually what a factory installation looks like, you'll be able to differentiate between an aftermarket installation and a factory installation.

As a past member of the Greater Vancouver Mustang Association, in judged competitions we (meaning GT owners) were very conscious of the fact that given the right components, one could create a GT clone. And if it was not registered in good faith as a clone it could have the potential of being unfairly judged against true GTs and other stangs in its class. Obviously this has implications throughout the various judging bodies, not just confined to local, national, and international Mustang Associations.

More importantly, the problem can become a criminal matter when GT clones are fraudulently created and sold as true GTs in order to take advantage of the premium for the GT group. This may become a serious concern, as there are plenty of uninformed buyers who may end up paying good money for a fraudulent GT, only to be told later that it's a clone. But the reality is that stangs with the GT group just don't share the same level of collectability as a Shelby, or even a K-code for that matter - it's not even in the same ballpark. Nicely restomodded stangs, well-appointed, with crate engines and two-tone paint jobs are selling for more than a stock stang GT. In fact, you can sell for about two to three times as much money selling a '65 Shelby recreation that everybody knows is fake than by selling a fraudulent stang GT clone that everyone thinks is real. So while it would be possible to recreate a GT, why would someone? The money's in restmods or high-end recreations, not cloning stock cars.

Fraudulent GT clones certainly haven't become the issue that collectors were once so afraid of. But if the time comes where the GTs become highly coveted, by observation you might expect to see a spike of GTs flooding the market. Hasn't happened yet, so there's still time to inform people of what things to look for. Anyway, if you happen to see any GT clones, I bet money they won't have the upgraded sway bar, much less needing to check for the facotry spot-welds.



If you just get your info from a list of GT components, you'll miss the important items such as the spot-welds that obviously wouldn't be listed. So if you think GTs are easy to fake - I'd like to see you try!
LOL

Piece of cake.

C5ZZ-65405A44-C .. Rear Lower Body Panel (already cut for the exhaust ports).

C5ZZ-5C299-A .. Bezel, Exhaust Ports

C5ZZ-5255-C & D .. Exhaust Tips R/L

C6ZZ-9030-B .. GT Gas Cap

That takes care of the azz end.

I hate to burst your bubble, but dual exhausts with those "GT" exhaust tips could be ordered on NON GT's. Did'ja know that the GT 350's are different?

btw: Both this body panel and C5ZZ-65405A44-B (single exhaust) were not cut for backup lights...you do know why, right?

A engine code: Any 1965/66 Mustang from day one with a 4V carb factory installed used this code.

1965/66 Manual disc brakes, optional on all the V8's. No P/D/B's till 1967.

C5ZZ-16856-A .. Hood Nose Moulding ~ not used on cars made prior to 8/23/64, the hood is also different on the early cars. There's a lip underneath at the corners, that prevented the hood moulding from being installed. The hood nose moulding was NOT a GT exclusive. Most 65's and 66's had them, GT or otherwise.

Prolly 75% of the remaining 1965/66 Mustangs extant have been in accidents, so trying to judge the cars weld points is difficult at best. Par example: If the VIN is missing from the left fender apron, the apron's been replaced.

Here in SoCal, the land of fakery, there's prolly more fake GT's than there are real ones.

See this asterisk * it represents what I know about Ford trucks...the rest of your computer screen represents what I know about Mustangs.

I was at the parts counter the day the Mustangs came out...and can recite prolly 95% of the parts numbers today...off the cuff.

Never owned a Mustang (I'm sasquatched sized)...except for a ratty '65 GT350..the 5th one made.

btw, part deux: Certified car show judge since 1971. I can usually spot faked Mustang GT's, Thunderbolts, Shelby's, "R" Code Galaxies, E, F & M Birds, Torino Talladega's, whatever.

There are things to look for you didn't mention...that I'm not gonna type here for all to see.
 

Last edited by NumberDummy; 01-16-2008 at 02:54 PM.
  #32  
Old 01-16-2008, 03:38 PM
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Holey crap. That's alot of info. I imagine there are many faked cars out there that the owners believe are the real thing.
 
  #33  
Old 01-16-2008, 07:12 PM
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I hate to burst your bubble, but dual exhausts with those "GT" exhaust tips could be ordered on NON GT's. Did'ja know that the GT 350's are different?
Good point. Not breaking my bubble as it's something I already know, but I think the odds of a non GT with factory dual exhaust being used to create a clone would be minimal. Keep in mind that there were plenty of inline sixes and 289 single-exhaust cars out there in addition to non GT 289s equipped with dual exhaust. It would be insightful to know how many cars were equipped with dual exhaust.

Here in SoCal, the land of fakery, there's prolly more fake GT's than there are real ones.
Lol - glad mine's not from California! Again, b/c Shelby clones, restomods, etc. are now worth much more than GTs, there's less incentive to make a GT.

See this asterisk * it represents what I know about Ford trucks...the rest of your computer screen represents what I know about Mustangs.
I was at the parts counter the day the Mustangs came out...and can recite prolly 95% of the parts numbers today...off the cuff.
Sorry, but I don't know if your bragging or complaining, lol! ND, you certainly know your stuff. Aside from a few hidden items e.g. spot-welds, swaybar, rubber grommet for fog light wiring harness, etc. there's probably some other items that I don't know about. If you have the time, I would be interested to hear how you would confirm a true GT.

Man you guys know alot about how to spot the fakes. I would have no clue. I wouldnt care either, I would like either!
Ditto. All the same, I'm glad mine's an original - I'll just never be able to prove it, lol!
 
  #34  
Old 01-17-2008, 07:09 PM
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Well thats information overload to me
 
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