Toyota Tundra woes “shame” automaker
#91
01-02-2008, 10:43 AM
Originally Posted by sglaine
Toyota is a foreign headquartered product and no way shape or form would I ever trust them and nor would I support them <snip> I would rather buy from an American Based Headquartered company that I can trust...
Originally Posted by sglaine
But if you believe the hype that Toyota is better well good luck to you.....
Originally Posted by sglaine
Buy the way the final dollar of that Toyota goes to that foreign headquartered Company that you were talking about and that really is not helping us out in part for why our dollar might be weak so you know...LOL
It's not like you to be so critical of others here.
I guess as long as they agree with your opinion....Who ever would have thought that this thread would have turned this way....
By the way, Alaska was still part of the USA last time I checked. We have enough "brain frozen" people here.....
#92
01-02-2008, 10:47 AM
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445
But, even then your mustang was produced by an American company that pays taxes in America not japan like toyota does.
By the way, that American, Mustang buildin' company, also pays taxes in Mexico, Canada, and Europe.
#93
01-02-2008, 11:09 AM
Originally Posted by Hobo
I used to work for a car dealership and one of our brands was Toyota. I am well aware of some of their issues.
All cars have them, but in my experience Ford passenger cars have had far more of them.
The worst example I can think of that I witnessed first hand was the sludge issue in 3.0L V6's.
Having driven and riden in both the Matrix and the Focus, I would drive a Matrix everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. The Focus is a complete pile of crap.
#94
01-02-2008, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SMIGGS
Much like the ignorant who "believe" that Ford ( noteably the F-150 ) is the be - all, end - all, as American as apple pie, bulletproof truck? Personally, if one is so blinded by brand loyality to "settle" for a second rate product only because of the logo on the packaging I would say that is "believing the hype".
F-150 is American as American Pie..Always been and always will..Lot More then Toyota that's for sure..Does not take a Rocket scientist to know that...
F-150 was Born here in the USA and Toyota Born in what like Japan or something..
#95
01-02-2008, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by Hobo
Define mainsteam, I consider the Subaru WRX to be fairly mainstream and it will easily out handle, out brake, and out run a Focus.
Mainstream meaning standard fare, run of the mill, "of the masses."
The WRX isn't mainstream, the Cobalt SS isn't mainstream, the SRT-4 isn't mainstream, the Civic Si is not quite mainstream. They are all limited quantity, performance packages. The term is fairly self evident.
#96
01-02-2008, 11:23 AM
It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which company has more riding on the US economy, which company has more invested in the US, and which company contributes more to the US.
Toyota - HQ in Tokyo, Japan
Ford - HQ in Dearborn, MI, USA
Which company produces more vehicles in the US, which company has more plants in the US, which company has the bulk of their white collar staff (engineers, R&D, etc.) in the US.
Ford spends more money on R&D than any other company with the exception of Pfizer, Ford spends the bulk of that money right here in the US. Toyota develops the bulk of their products in Japan.
You're KIDDING yourself if you think purchasing a Toyota is helping the US economy. It is only in a limited, superficial, short term way.
Toyota - HQ in Tokyo, Japan
Ford - HQ in Dearborn, MI, USA
Which company produces more vehicles in the US, which company has more plants in the US, which company has the bulk of their white collar staff (engineers, R&D, etc.) in the US.
Ford spends more money on R&D than any other company with the exception of Pfizer, Ford spends the bulk of that money right here in the US. Toyota develops the bulk of their products in Japan.
You're KIDDING yourself if you think purchasing a Toyota is helping the US economy. It is only in a limited, superficial, short term way.
#97
01-02-2008, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by bfloyd4445
Good point. Wonder what a complete break down of all the parts would show. But, even then your mustang was produced by an American company that pays taxes in America not japan like toyota does.
All vehicles imported by Toyota have a tariff assessed to them as well, so taxes are paid on those too. Geez the ignorance here is amazing.
#98
01-02-2008, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Bad
Then you should be familiar with their widespread FWD transaxle problems. Toyota FWD trans have been junk for years.
In my experience they don't.
Which 3.0L? The 3.0L truck engines had far more than sludge problems.
I have as well, and the Focus is a much better all around car than the Matrix or ANY Corolla ever produced. The Focus chassis is just on another playing field than the Corolla. ANY Corolla, including the Matrix.
In my experience they don't.
Which 3.0L? The 3.0L truck engines had far more than sludge problems.
I have as well, and the Focus is a much better all around car than the Matrix or ANY Corolla ever produced. The Focus chassis is just on another playing field than the Corolla. ANY Corolla, including the Matrix.
I know you disagree with this, and that is based on your experiences. Well, I had my experiences too and formed my opinions that also happen to be bakced up by large amounts of empirical data.
During my time working at the dealership Toyota did not offer any 3.0L truck engines. You must be reffering to a really old model like the 88-95 4Runner, and Tacoma. I know little of these vehicles other than I didn't see many in the shop, but that could be because they were no longer in warranty. The 3.4L V6 I observed to rarely have any issues, and the Tacoma in general is and was a tough little truck. I did search for problems with the 3VZE and found mostly head gasket issues leading to overheating. There have never been Ford motors (cough cough 6.0L Powerstroke) that have had head gasket issues?
You like Focus's I don't. Honestly the chassis in any FWD econobox are so dumbed down compared to anything I am likely to buy that telling them apart is kind of hard for me. They all understeer like pigs, it's just physics. The best I have driven is the new Mazda 3 and the Civic. I don't like FWD though.
#99
01-02-2008, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Bad
The WRX is hardly a "mainstream" compact. Far from it.
Mainstream meaning standard fare, run of the mill, "of the masses."
The WRX isn't mainstream, the Cobalt SS isn't mainstream, the SRT-4 isn't mainstream, the Civic Si is not quite mainstream. They are all limited quantity, performance packages. The term is fairly self evident.
Mainstream meaning standard fare, run of the mill, "of the masses."
The WRX isn't mainstream, the Cobalt SS isn't mainstream, the SRT-4 isn't mainstream, the Civic Si is not quite mainstream. They are all limited quantity, performance packages. The term is fairly self evident.
Do you consider the base Imprezza to be mainstream? It is also a hell of a lot more fun to drive than a Focus.
#100
01-02-2008, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Bad
It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which company has more riding on the US economy, which company has more invested in the US, and which company contributes more to the US.
Toyota - HQ in Tokyo, Japan
Ford - HQ in Dearborn, MI, USA
Which company produces more vehicles in the US, which company has more plants in the US, which company has the bulk of their white collar staff (engineers, R&D, etc.) in the US.
Ford spends more money on R&D than any other company with the exception of Pfizer, Ford spends the bulk of that money right here in the US. Toyota develops the bulk of their products in Japan.
You're KIDDING yourself if you think purchasing a Toyota is helping the US economy. It is only in a limited, superficial, short term way.
Toyota - HQ in Tokyo, Japan
Ford - HQ in Dearborn, MI, USA
Which company produces more vehicles in the US, which company has more plants in the US, which company has the bulk of their white collar staff (engineers, R&D, etc.) in the US.
Ford spends more money on R&D than any other company with the exception of Pfizer, Ford spends the bulk of that money right here in the US. Toyota develops the bulk of their products in Japan.
You're KIDDING yourself if you think purchasing a Toyota is helping the US economy. It is only in a limited, superficial, short term way.
If Ford spends so much on R&D why are they unable to turn out a world beating product? Frankly I don't believe they are really spending very much on R&D myself.
#101
01-02-2008, 12:54 PM
Post Fiend
Let me get this straight. If it is unpatriotic to buy cars from a company with HQ outside your own, then Ford and GM should get out of Europe, Australia, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, China, South Korea and any other place where they build cars?
Are you saying that Germans should stop buying Opels, for instance, and only buy from BMW, Daimler or VW-Audi?
Jim
Are you saying that Germans should stop buying Opels, for instance, and only buy from BMW, Daimler or VW-Audi?
Jim
#102
01-02-2008, 12:57 PM
Laughing Gas
Originally Posted by Hobo
The sludge issue was a bad example of corporate arrogance and refusing to admit that something could have been designed badly. Not Toyota's brightest moment I will admit.
However if you want to get into a pissing contest for which company (Ford vs Toyota) has the longest history of crappy products, cover ups, refusals, and poor customer service we can do that.
How about the Ford Pinto remember that one? Where Ford figured it would be cheaper to fight lawsuits from next of kin that it would be to cut some bolts shorter at the factory?
How about the F series trucks that would catch fire for no apparent reason, that Ford was finally forced to admit was a problem.
Ford 5.4L V8's launching spark plugs that Ford still refuses to admit is a design flaw.
You might also remember the previous generation F-150 that would crumple up like a beer can in a head on collision. Safety first!
Now on to personal experience with crappy Ford products.
Case one: 1995 Ford Contour 2.5L DOHC V6. This car died at about 85k on the clock with a siezed engine. Before that the car had four catalytic converters replaced (the fifth one needed to be as well, but we just put up with the light on the dash). One transmission had to be replaced 57k miles I think. All the spark plug wires within 45K miles. The car also had a defective starter that managed to grind off some of it's gear teeth and the corresponding teeth on the flywheel. This was discovered and fixed when the tranny failed.
Case two: 1998 Ford Taurus SHO 3.4L DOHC V8. All coil packs at least twice in 70K miles. One transmission at 52k if I recall correctly. Steering rack/CV joints at 33k going out again when it was traded off. Window regulators. Trunk release. Door mounted tweeters, twice on the driver's side, once on the passenger side.
Case three: 2001 Ford Focus 2.0L DOHC I4. Transmission fialed at 62K. The car had some body damage as well, and was deemed not worth fixing. Scraped.
Family experiences with Toyota products have been the exact opposite thus far.
The Tundra is too new to report on, so far no issues.
My mother drives a 2004 Lexus ES 330, so far it has about 48k on the odo. It has been in the shop only for oil changes and routine service, there have been no problems. None. The car doesn't even have squeaks or rattles. The interior looks new still. This car replaced the SHO. Good ridance to that turd.
My father and my wife both Drive Scion Tc's. My dad has more miles on his (about 25k) and has had no issues from any parts failure. Neither has my wife's car with about 13k on it. Admitedly both cars are still really low mileage right now, but they are tighter and noticebly more well made than the cars they replaced (the 1995 Contour for my dad, and a 1991 Buick for the wife). The cars both have had a voloutary recall perfomed on the side impact air bag sensors. The work took less than an hour.
My brother replaced the crappy Focus with a Toyota Matrix in November. The Matrix is a 2003 with right around 60k on the odo. He has reported that the car is much more well made than the Focus ever was even when new. Beyond that I have nothing else to say about the Matrix as I have never seen the car in person.
However if you want to get into a pissing contest for which company (Ford vs Toyota) has the longest history of crappy products, cover ups, refusals, and poor customer service we can do that.
How about the Ford Pinto remember that one? Where Ford figured it would be cheaper to fight lawsuits from next of kin that it would be to cut some bolts shorter at the factory?
How about the F series trucks that would catch fire for no apparent reason, that Ford was finally forced to admit was a problem.
Ford 5.4L V8's launching spark plugs that Ford still refuses to admit is a design flaw.
You might also remember the previous generation F-150 that would crumple up like a beer can in a head on collision. Safety first!
Now on to personal experience with crappy Ford products.
Case one: 1995 Ford Contour 2.5L DOHC V6. This car died at about 85k on the clock with a siezed engine. Before that the car had four catalytic converters replaced (the fifth one needed to be as well, but we just put up with the light on the dash). One transmission had to be replaced 57k miles I think. All the spark plug wires within 45K miles. The car also had a defective starter that managed to grind off some of it's gear teeth and the corresponding teeth on the flywheel. This was discovered and fixed when the tranny failed.
Case two: 1998 Ford Taurus SHO 3.4L DOHC V8. All coil packs at least twice in 70K miles. One transmission at 52k if I recall correctly. Steering rack/CV joints at 33k going out again when it was traded off. Window regulators. Trunk release. Door mounted tweeters, twice on the driver's side, once on the passenger side.
Case three: 2001 Ford Focus 2.0L DOHC I4. Transmission fialed at 62K. The car had some body damage as well, and was deemed not worth fixing. Scraped.
Family experiences with Toyota products have been the exact opposite thus far.
The Tundra is too new to report on, so far no issues.
My mother drives a 2004 Lexus ES 330, so far it has about 48k on the odo. It has been in the shop only for oil changes and routine service, there have been no problems. None. The car doesn't even have squeaks or rattles. The interior looks new still. This car replaced the SHO. Good ridance to that turd.
My father and my wife both Drive Scion Tc's. My dad has more miles on his (about 25k) and has had no issues from any parts failure. Neither has my wife's car with about 13k on it. Admitedly both cars are still really low mileage right now, but they are tighter and noticebly more well made than the cars they replaced (the 1995 Contour for my dad, and a 1991 Buick for the wife). The cars both have had a voloutary recall perfomed on the side impact air bag sensors. The work took less than an hour.
My brother replaced the crappy Focus with a Toyota Matrix in November. The Matrix is a 2003 with right around 60k on the odo. He has reported that the car is much more well made than the Focus ever was even when new. Beyond that I have nothing else to say about the Matrix as I have never seen the car in person.
#103
01-02-2008, 01:31 PM
Laughing Gas
Originally Posted by SMIGGS
So your telling me that Toyota doesn't pay a cent in American taxes for setting up shop here? The American workers don't pay American taxes?
By the way, that American, Mustang buildin' company, also pays taxes in Mexico, Canada, and Europe.
By the way, that American, Mustang buildin' company, also pays taxes in Mexico, Canada, and Europe.
#104
01-02-2008, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by builtfordtough13
If your having that many problems with transmissions, maybe you should look at the owner instead of the cars, I have never heard of that many trannys going out in different cars, by the same owner. I have a 2001 Focus, and couldn't be happier it has 123,000 miles on it and has never left us stranded, and its been in the shop once for a leaky valve cover gasket and it was covered under warranty, I own a 1994 F-150, only problems I had were the freeze plug going out, and the shift motor going out luckily we caught it before winter came, and my 1989 Aerostar, 250,000 miles and it never left us stranded and no major repairs until 225,000 miles. My aunt and grandma also both have 2001 Ford Focuses, and my Aunt has never had a problem, and my grandmas is really sensitive to the gas she puts in, other than that we have never had a problem with any of our fords.
#105
01-02-2008, 02:14 PM
Laughing Gas
Originally Posted by Big Bad
It really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which company has more riding on the US economy, which company has more invested in the US, and which company contributes more to the US.
Toyota - HQ in Tokyo, Japan
Ford - HQ in Dearborn, MI, USA
Which company produces more vehicles in the US, which company has more plants in the US, which company has the bulk of their white collar staff (engineers, R&D, etc.) in the US.
Ford spends more money on R&D than any other company with the exception of Pfizer, Ford spends the bulk of that money right here in the US. Toyota develops the bulk of their products in Japan.
You're KIDDING yourself if you think purchasing a Toyota is helping the US economy. It is only in a limited, superficial, short term way.
Toyota - HQ in Tokyo, Japan
Ford - HQ in Dearborn, MI, USA
Which company produces more vehicles in the US, which company has more plants in the US, which company has the bulk of their white collar staff (engineers, R&D, etc.) in the US.
Ford spends more money on R&D than any other company with the exception of Pfizer, Ford spends the bulk of that money right here in the US. Toyota develops the bulk of their products in Japan.
You're KIDDING yourself if you think purchasing a Toyota is helping the US economy. It is only in a limited, superficial, short term way.
Last edited by bfloyd4445; 01-02-2008 at 02:22 PM.