Yep, in drag racing it is all about tires and traction. A lot of power won't do much good if you can't get to the ground.

 

They sell alot of the new Expeditions up here in Alaska. And people here LOVE them. They work good in the mud and the snow in the summer. RSC is great!!

 

Alaska State troopers use the Exeditions and they really like them. They last forever, can take a beating and have the power to keep going in deep snow when they need to.

 

Has anyone else had any strange activations of the system. I've been having the break pedal pulsate every once in awhile if I am driving on curves or freeway onramps at a good speed. I'm nowhere near going fast enough for the tires to even sqeal so this shouldn't be happening. It going to cause me to crash one of these days, it's pretty unnerving when the pedal slams back into you.

 

Apparently you were going too fast for that vehicle to safely perform that maneuver, because that was the stability control system selectively applying the brakes to assure that the vehicle could continue to turn at the speed and curve radius that you had chosen. Had you been going even faster, it would have applied all the brakes differentially to do the same thing AND slow you down to a reasonable speed for that curve.

And contrary to your belief that you weren't going fast enough to squeal the tires, the system activates before that point to make sure that it can continue to be capable of saving your butt should you hit a patch of water, ice or sand in that same turn.

 

Since there seems to be some real experts on this stuff in this thread I thought I'd ask a quick question.
I'm in the process of having it out with Ford right now over our 07 Expy. I've had an on going issue with the TPMS where I get random sensor faults. They have attempted to fix the issue 7 times and have replaced every major component of the system thus far. Ford even sent an some sort of special tech to my dealer to try and deal with it with the same outcome which is I still have the problem.
Anyway I finally approached Ford directly in Dec about buying it back or replacing it and they turned me down a few weeks ago because they are calling it "normal" operation. What they are saying "normal" means is that the system can loose contact with a sensor in the wheels (which is my problem). In my case it looses contact with them for up to 20-30 minutes at random intervals while driving. I however still think they should have to correct it. The owner’s manual even states that it should be serviced if this specific warning is displayed. If it was truly normal I'd have to ask why the need to have it serviced?
The bottom line is they are wrong in not replacing or buying the vehicle at this point as they've had ample opportunity to fix it with out success. I contacted an lemon law attorney in my state yesterday to get the ball rolling. The argument that I think should be made is that the TPMS is a safety device and at no point should it ever loose contact with the wheels while in motion. In reading this thread I started thinking about the ESC being a law and wondering how the TPMS ties into the ESC in the Ford? I have a Honda that allows you to turn the system off below a speed like the Ford but if a tire goes low while it is off it automatically comes back on and can not be turned off again until the low pressure is corrected. Does anyone know if the TPMS in the Ford is tied in a similar way?
If it is it seems to me that a good argument to make is that the ESC must be in good working order by law and any failing component (such as the TPMS) that does not allow it to do that should be corrected and if it can not be corrected (as in my case after 7 tries) then the vehicle needs to be bought back or replaced. I think about a scenario where the system has been turned off using the button, then the TPMS malfunctions as it does in my case, and a tire goes low but the ESC doesn't know about it because it can't communicate with the sensors in the tires causing a safety issue. There are other good reasons I can think of as to why the TPMS must be working at all times but the fact that the ESC is law seems like one of the better ones.
Any thoughts and/or documentation to back them up?

Thanks

 

You need to contact the NHTSA Auto SAafety Hotline and submit a complaint for each of the seven incidents `with names, statements and whatever you have. Yes, you are correct that the Federal law requires the TPMS to work.

On the Expy, the TPMS sensors are radio transmitters that send information to the body computer for processing. They are not necessarily tied in electrically nor programmed with to the Stability, Traction and Roll control. The latter get signals from various accecelerometers, steering shaft, abs tone rings and other sensors. On some vehicles, not the Expy, the TPMS measures the abs tone ring rpm of each wheel and compares them over a long period of rotation. It one of the rings has a higher rpm relative to the others, it means that the tire on that axle has a smaller radius and that usually means that its pressure is less than the other tires. Maybe Hondas are that way, and because of that mismatch, Honda wants to make sure that the stability control et. al. is operating should the tire fail catastrophically. Under that condition, the computer help would be very helpful, keep Honda customers safe, and keep Honda from being sued. Other companies behave similarly, but in any case, make us safer when driving.

Thus, your system should work; enlist NHTSA help; enlist your state's atty. generals office or your county consumer advocate or your states lemon law office.

 

I have to disagree on how you should pursue this. NHTSA isn't going to replace your vehicle for you, and they aren't going to pressure Ford to do so either.

I bought a 2006 Toyota Avalon and with an ignition problem that the dealer could not remedy. Toyota refused to replace the ECU because it was a $5000.00 part and they weren't SURE it would fix the problem. I went through Toyota's arbitration process, met with the arbitrator. I made an undeniable presentation, and was pretty happy with myself. Nonetheless, my request to have the vehicle bought back was DENIED. No big surprise there, as the arbitrator gets paid by Toyota. Still, I think going through the arbitration process with your dealer provides good grounds for the next step.

I researched some Calif. lemon law attorney online. They get paid by the manufacturer in all CA cases, so they only accept cases they think will settle. The first firm didn't like my case. The second firm thought it was a fair case, but not a guaranteed settlement. They accepted it and fired off some letters to Toyota stating our demands. A few weeks later, Toyota agreed to buy back the vehicle. It was several more weeks before they made arrangments for me to drop the vehicle off at the dealer. In the end, they paid me 100% of my purchase price, some of my interest paid, minus about $1000 dollars for the mileage on the vehicle at the time of the first complaint (4000 miles in my case). The vehicle had 17k miles when I turned it back in. Toyota also had to pay my attorney his $2500.00 fee. Nothing says serious like an attorney's notice of intent to sue. I would guess that Ford will probably behave the same way. This process is not for the faint of heart, and they know it. This is the link for the attorney that I used:

http://www.yourlemonlawrights.com/ca...ia/index4.aspx

My attorney was Todd Friedman. Check out their site if you intend to go that way. I'd recommend you go through arbitration with Ford first, if only because it makes a better case that you are serious, and not just some ranting lunatic. Let me know if you want to email and discuss the lemon law issue more.

 

When all else fails, you always have the 'Motor City' option.


That is, a can of gas and a match.

 

Thank you for the replies and advice. I think I will file a complaint with the NHTSA but like rbarbot2 I'm not confident that they will actually do anything about it. I had already contacted a attorney and they are deciding if the want the case or not. If that doesn't work out I'd be glad to check out the practice recommended but it doesn't look like they work in my state.

The attorney I talked to told me, if I understood correctly, that I may be forced to go to arbitration before anything sees a court room if Ford requests it. I'm not sure how arbitration would go but the way Ford Customer Care has treated me so far I have my doubts it would go in my favor.

Other than this problem I feel the Expy has been great. I've had other issues like the wind noise with the mirror, the transmission reprogramming, and a few other things but they've all been fixed. However in the end if I'm successful in getting Ford to buy it back I don't see me buying another one mostly because of the run around I've gotten from customer care on this issue. My dealer has been great in trying to work with me to fix it. I asked them to buy it back first and they said they didn't have a program for that and I needed to take something like that up with Ford directly and helped me get the issue opened with customer care. My service advisor at the dealer even started using the term lemon with me around try number 5 to fix it.

I know I'm biased but I feel like I have a pretty ironclad case. No one, even Ford, has denied that I'm having the issue and that they have not been able to correct it thus far. Where we are butting heads is that they apparently want me to just live with it. I'm very interested to hear what the attorney thinks about how strong the case is. I provided him with close to 20 pages of documentation from customer care and my dealer acknowledging both the problem and that it hadn't been corrected. I don't know how it gets more ironclad than that but I'm sure someone will surprise with a reason why it is not.

Thanks again.

 

Both of you are correct, that NHTSA will not help get Ford to buy your vehicle. The point of NHTSA involvement is that a Federally mandated safety device on your car does not work. NHTSA's responsibility is to make sure that vehicle manufacturers build and sell Federally complying vehicles. If manufacturers don't do that, NHTSA gets mad. Your seven complaints will help that. You may not be the only one who has this problem. There are lots of Expys sold, and only a handfull of owners participate in this forum. You never know how big the problem is unless you report it. If it is not unique to your vehicle, then maybe a recall would be conducted.

But, as i first stated, that is only one thing of many that you should do.

 

You summarily dismiss my suggestions by summarizing that NHTSA isn't going to help. Yet, you recommended one of the group of things that I recommended all be done. Good for you for bashing me! Shame on me for participating!