Toyota slipping
decadent and depraved
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,703
Likes: 6
From: Right Behind You
Originally Posted by SMIGGS
I'm really going to go out on a limb here and ask you, ( Big Bad )
I take it you don't think highly of Toyota?
I take it you don't think highly of Toyota?
Tim
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,452
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by thorseshoeing
Dude, you read my mind...I was about to post the exact same thing...
Tim
Tim
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 937
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by SMIGGS
Kudo's on his cut/paste abilities. I also like the bold and different colors, makes it that much easier to skip over.
Last edited by Big Bad; Oct 22, 2007 at 06:35 PM.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 18,787
Likes: 30
From: Melbourne, Aus
Originally Posted by Big Bad
RANTS by Peter M. De Lorenzo of Autoextremist
Dear Mr. Toyoda...
Detroit. Not to rain on your parade this morning, especially after your induction into the Automotive Hall of Fame in Dearborn last evening, but how can I put this other than to say that all of a sudden things aren't looking so good for Toyota in the U.S. market after years of unprecedented ascension and current dominance? I know you're "just" the honorary chairman of Toyota, but you're the direct link to the founding Toyoda family of the Toyota Motor Corp., and from what I understand, you're still "the straw that stirs the drink" in the company and you still set the tone for the entire Toyota organization.
So on your tour of the U.S. headquarters in California this week, where you are expected to be debriefed about all of the latest developments with the Toyota juggernaut in the U.S., rather than getting the story from your Japanese and American operatives, I thought I'd give you the straight story from the heart of the U.S. auto industry here in the Motor City.
What does the "Detroit Three" have to do with the future of Toyota? After all, isn't the domestic automobile business in the U.S. just the trash heap on the side of the road fading in your rearview mirror on the way to becoming The Greatest Automobile Company the World Has Ever Known?
As we like to say around here during football season, not so fast, and here's why:
Those executives walking out the door? Those aren't just due to the ebb and flow of normal business operations. And no, I'm not talking about Deborah Wahl Meyer here, since her abilities have yet to be tested on a genuinely tough marketing challenge, and her value to the Cerberus-owned Chrysler is still a giant "wait and see." I'm talking about Jim Press and Jim Farley. Press you know very well, as it is said that you were his mentor in the company. Sure, you can chalk it up to the mercenary aspect of the situation, as Press could potentially make more personally than you've made over your entire career several times over, but you know better than probably anyone that there's a deeper undercurrent to Press leaving. He was elevated up and out of the fray, and at the end of the day your company made it very clear that the highest-ranking American at Toyota would never be more than that - just another deckhand on the Toyota ship. That's perfectly logical, given that Toyota, at the end of the day, is a Japanese company, but then again, the message it sends is not exactly comforting to the U.S. managers toiling on your behalf, now, is it?
Even though Press was moved out of the way before his departure, his stamp is all over your U.S. operation, right? And now his avowed mission is to help resurrect a U.S. brand and give you and your organization fits, which can't make you very comfortable or happy. Yes, I questioned Jimbo's moral compass in all of this because after all, he worked for 37 years to make Toyota No. 1 on your family's behalf and now all of a sudden he's as American as an Uncle Sam actor in a Fourth of July parade, which is a bit disingenuous, to say the least, but nonetheless, one of the architects of Toyota's unequaled success in the U.S. is now playing for the Dark Side.
But then again, you can sit back and philosophically chalk that up to the fact that Press is getting on in years and he really wasn't worth that much to the organization anymore, right? Or at least that is what your internal spin-meisters are going to tell you this week to assuage your concerns.
But then what are we to make of Jim Farley's departure to the Ford Motor Company?
Certainly no one can live up to the press clippings that the fawning automotive media has bestowed on young Mr. Farley, right? Yes, that is true, but - and we're talking a giant "but" here - it's very clear that Farley was the best and brightest star in your entire U.S. organization, no? He was the Heir Apparent, the Dude Who Would Be King and the guy who was eventually going to lead your money-printing operations for the next 20 years. And there's no way you can gloss-over his loss is there? No, you can't. And get ready, because I'm hearing there will be more departures of Americans from your U.S. operations shortly.
And the free pass you've been getting from the automotive and mainstream media for the last 10 years? It's about to evaporate into thin air. That little dustup generated by your Cheerleader in Chief, Tom Friedman, of The New York Times, two weeks ago over Toyota's apparent less-than-Jolly Green Giant marketing initiatives into gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs and the fact that you're siding with the Detroit Three in their quest for saner CAFE legislation is just the tip of the iceberg. You can dismiss most of it, because Friedman, like most of his Green Posse brethren, is totally clueless about the scope of Toyota's business model here in the U.S. (they're just now catching up to the fact that the Prius isn't how you make your money over here, and they're shocked, shocked that this is so). All of your accumulated "we're the most benevolent car company on the planet" goodwill and all that money you've spent on "hugs and smiles" marketing campaigns is about to get blown up real good. And with your Golden Marketing Boy gone and your organization reeling from his departure, your ability to respond in the necessary fashion will be compromised, at best...
No individual or company can stay as hot as Toyota has for as long as it has. Yes, I know the mantra around your place is that "complacency is the enemy" and all the associated platitudes that go with that statement, but what do we know about Toyota of late, besides the fact that your Green halo is getting caught in the crossfire between the rabid Friedmanistas and the reality of making money in the U.S. - which is still the single most important market in the world?
Let's review, shall we?
Yes, you're about to become the biggest car company in the world, but at what price? Should I remind you of the unprecedented recalls by your company over the last three years? Or about the 470,000-vehicle recall in your home market that you just announced today? And the fact that other manufacturers are getting dangerously close and in some cases equaling and even surpassing Toyota's vaunted quality statistics in the most recent surveys?
And how about the news yesterday from Consumer Reports magazine, that bastion of self-promoting automotive objectivity and the magazine that literally propelled Toyota to its lofty quality perch over the years? They reported that the quality of cars made by Toyota had slipped so much that the magazine no longer will automatically recommend them. Ouch. And ironically, the magazine released the results of its 2007 annual Car Reliability Survey yesterday in Detroit. Double ouch.
Consumer Reports reported that two of your most crucial and all-new for 2007 models, the perennially best-selling Camry V-6 and the new four-wheel-drive Tundra pickup scored below average. And as you know, CR won't recommend any model scoring below average to its readers. Toyota used to get a free pass from the magazine for its previous record of reliability and quality. Not anymore. The magazine announced that it would no longer recommend any new or redesigned Toyota-built models without reliability data on a specific design. That kind of shoots holes in the old Toyota=Good, Detroit=Bad formula floating around the mainstream media now, doesn't it?
That's got to be daunting to you and your organization, because after all, without your (formerly) unimpeachable reputation for quality what is Toyota left with, exactly?
The environmental high ground? Hmmm, how is that working out for you of late? What about exciting cars and trucks? Uh, not so much. Your company has struggled for years to convince consumers that you indeed build emotionally involving products, and you've failed miserably at it. You build the rolling equivalent of automotive pabulum, and you know it. As a matter of fact, there are some people (including me) who are highly skeptical as to whether or not you're even capable of building anything but vanilla-flavored transportation devices. After all, isn't it your company that has been unable to record even a single victory in Formula 1 after spending upwards of $2 billion with a capital "B" over the last five years? That's right, not one.
And what about the U.S. market? You've had to spend unprecedented cash on rebates and incentives in an attempt at seeding the new full-sized Tundra pickup in this market. And even with that unseemly business, your company has had three - count 'em - three straight months of downward sales numbers. That's unprecedented, too, at least in your recent double-digit-sales-increase-every-month history.
Just wondering, but are you going to do a Vince Lombardi for the troops in California and say, "What the Hell is goin' on out there?!?" Nah, not your style, I would bet, but you will be asking them that in so many words, won't you?
Yes, Mr. Toyoda, in this 50th Anniversary year of your operations here in the U.S., you have serious problems looming at every turn. And to make matters even worse, your main rival - General Motors - has finally emerged from its 30-year slumber/coma and is coming out with a variety of cars, trucks and SUV/crossovers that are uncomfortably competitive, even threatening, in some cases. Not to mention the fact that Toyota's Greener-than-thou persona is about to be seriously challenged over the next two years by GM (and every other car maker in the world, for that matter).
Dear Mr. Toyoda...
Detroit. Not to rain on your parade this morning, especially after your induction into the Automotive Hall of Fame in Dearborn last evening, but how can I put this other than to say that all of a sudden things aren't looking so good for Toyota in the U.S. market after years of unprecedented ascension and current dominance? I know you're "just" the honorary chairman of Toyota, but you're the direct link to the founding Toyoda family of the Toyota Motor Corp., and from what I understand, you're still "the straw that stirs the drink" in the company and you still set the tone for the entire Toyota organization.
So on your tour of the U.S. headquarters in California this week, where you are expected to be debriefed about all of the latest developments with the Toyota juggernaut in the U.S., rather than getting the story from your Japanese and American operatives, I thought I'd give you the straight story from the heart of the U.S. auto industry here in the Motor City.
What does the "Detroit Three" have to do with the future of Toyota? After all, isn't the domestic automobile business in the U.S. just the trash heap on the side of the road fading in your rearview mirror on the way to becoming The Greatest Automobile Company the World Has Ever Known?
As we like to say around here during football season, not so fast, and here's why:
Those executives walking out the door? Those aren't just due to the ebb and flow of normal business operations. And no, I'm not talking about Deborah Wahl Meyer here, since her abilities have yet to be tested on a genuinely tough marketing challenge, and her value to the Cerberus-owned Chrysler is still a giant "wait and see." I'm talking about Jim Press and Jim Farley. Press you know very well, as it is said that you were his mentor in the company. Sure, you can chalk it up to the mercenary aspect of the situation, as Press could potentially make more personally than you've made over your entire career several times over, but you know better than probably anyone that there's a deeper undercurrent to Press leaving. He was elevated up and out of the fray, and at the end of the day your company made it very clear that the highest-ranking American at Toyota would never be more than that - just another deckhand on the Toyota ship. That's perfectly logical, given that Toyota, at the end of the day, is a Japanese company, but then again, the message it sends is not exactly comforting to the U.S. managers toiling on your behalf, now, is it?
Even though Press was moved out of the way before his departure, his stamp is all over your U.S. operation, right? And now his avowed mission is to help resurrect a U.S. brand and give you and your organization fits, which can't make you very comfortable or happy. Yes, I questioned Jimbo's moral compass in all of this because after all, he worked for 37 years to make Toyota No. 1 on your family's behalf and now all of a sudden he's as American as an Uncle Sam actor in a Fourth of July parade, which is a bit disingenuous, to say the least, but nonetheless, one of the architects of Toyota's unequaled success in the U.S. is now playing for the Dark Side.
But then again, you can sit back and philosophically chalk that up to the fact that Press is getting on in years and he really wasn't worth that much to the organization anymore, right? Or at least that is what your internal spin-meisters are going to tell you this week to assuage your concerns.
But then what are we to make of Jim Farley's departure to the Ford Motor Company?
Certainly no one can live up to the press clippings that the fawning automotive media has bestowed on young Mr. Farley, right? Yes, that is true, but - and we're talking a giant "but" here - it's very clear that Farley was the best and brightest star in your entire U.S. organization, no? He was the Heir Apparent, the Dude Who Would Be King and the guy who was eventually going to lead your money-printing operations for the next 20 years. And there's no way you can gloss-over his loss is there? No, you can't. And get ready, because I'm hearing there will be more departures of Americans from your U.S. operations shortly.
And the free pass you've been getting from the automotive and mainstream media for the last 10 years? It's about to evaporate into thin air. That little dustup generated by your Cheerleader in Chief, Tom Friedman, of The New York Times, two weeks ago over Toyota's apparent less-than-Jolly Green Giant marketing initiatives into gas-guzzling trucks and SUVs and the fact that you're siding with the Detroit Three in their quest for saner CAFE legislation is just the tip of the iceberg. You can dismiss most of it, because Friedman, like most of his Green Posse brethren, is totally clueless about the scope of Toyota's business model here in the U.S. (they're just now catching up to the fact that the Prius isn't how you make your money over here, and they're shocked, shocked that this is so). All of your accumulated "we're the most benevolent car company on the planet" goodwill and all that money you've spent on "hugs and smiles" marketing campaigns is about to get blown up real good. And with your Golden Marketing Boy gone and your organization reeling from his departure, your ability to respond in the necessary fashion will be compromised, at best...
No individual or company can stay as hot as Toyota has for as long as it has. Yes, I know the mantra around your place is that "complacency is the enemy" and all the associated platitudes that go with that statement, but what do we know about Toyota of late, besides the fact that your Green halo is getting caught in the crossfire between the rabid Friedmanistas and the reality of making money in the U.S. - which is still the single most important market in the world?
Let's review, shall we?
Yes, you're about to become the biggest car company in the world, but at what price? Should I remind you of the unprecedented recalls by your company over the last three years? Or about the 470,000-vehicle recall in your home market that you just announced today? And the fact that other manufacturers are getting dangerously close and in some cases equaling and even surpassing Toyota's vaunted quality statistics in the most recent surveys?
And how about the news yesterday from Consumer Reports magazine, that bastion of self-promoting automotive objectivity and the magazine that literally propelled Toyota to its lofty quality perch over the years? They reported that the quality of cars made by Toyota had slipped so much that the magazine no longer will automatically recommend them. Ouch. And ironically, the magazine released the results of its 2007 annual Car Reliability Survey yesterday in Detroit. Double ouch.
Consumer Reports reported that two of your most crucial and all-new for 2007 models, the perennially best-selling Camry V-6 and the new four-wheel-drive Tundra pickup scored below average. And as you know, CR won't recommend any model scoring below average to its readers. Toyota used to get a free pass from the magazine for its previous record of reliability and quality. Not anymore. The magazine announced that it would no longer recommend any new or redesigned Toyota-built models without reliability data on a specific design. That kind of shoots holes in the old Toyota=Good, Detroit=Bad formula floating around the mainstream media now, doesn't it?
That's got to be daunting to you and your organization, because after all, without your (formerly) unimpeachable reputation for quality what is Toyota left with, exactly?
The environmental high ground? Hmmm, how is that working out for you of late? What about exciting cars and trucks? Uh, not so much. Your company has struggled for years to convince consumers that you indeed build emotionally involving products, and you've failed miserably at it. You build the rolling equivalent of automotive pabulum, and you know it. As a matter of fact, there are some people (including me) who are highly skeptical as to whether or not you're even capable of building anything but vanilla-flavored transportation devices. After all, isn't it your company that has been unable to record even a single victory in Formula 1 after spending upwards of $2 billion with a capital "B" over the last five years? That's right, not one.
And what about the U.S. market? You've had to spend unprecedented cash on rebates and incentives in an attempt at seeding the new full-sized Tundra pickup in this market. And even with that unseemly business, your company has had three - count 'em - three straight months of downward sales numbers. That's unprecedented, too, at least in your recent double-digit-sales-increase-every-month history.
Just wondering, but are you going to do a Vince Lombardi for the troops in California and say, "What the Hell is goin' on out there?!?" Nah, not your style, I would bet, but you will be asking them that in so many words, won't you?
Yes, Mr. Toyoda, in this 50th Anniversary year of your operations here in the U.S., you have serious problems looming at every turn. And to make matters even worse, your main rival - General Motors - has finally emerged from its 30-year slumber/coma and is coming out with a variety of cars, trucks and SUV/crossovers that are uncomfortably competitive, even threatening, in some cases. Not to mention the fact that Toyota's Greener-than-thou persona is about to be seriously challenged over the next two years by GM (and every other car maker in the world, for that matter).
We must credit original sources, and not JUST copy and paste
Oh, and no need for personal attacks either
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 937
Likes: 0
The original source was credited, FTE Fred.
"RANTS by Peter M. De Lorenzo of Autoextremist"
Here's a link: http://www.autoextremist.com/index.shtml
"RANTS by Peter M. De Lorenzo of Autoextremist"
Here's a link: http://www.autoextremist.com/index.shtml
Last edited by Big Bad; Oct 22, 2007 at 06:29 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,228
Likes: 5
From: Running Springs CA
The idea that hiring away MARKETING people is going to turn things around is another symptom of what is wrong in Detroit. PRODUCT and SERVICE is what gets you customers and keeps them. Marketing is needed, of course, but is not a substitute. GM is still on top and may very well stay there, but Toyota's "run" is far from over.
Jim
Jim
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,452
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by jimandmandy
The idea that hiring away MARKETING people is going to turn things around is another symptom of what is wrong in Detroit. PRODUCT and SERVICE is what gets you customers and keeps them. Marketing is needed, of course, but is not a substitute. GM is still on top and may very well stay there, but Toyota's "run" is far from over.
Jim
Jim
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,452
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by duramaximizer
LOL do you like toyota??? You guys all said it first. LOL
How about a GM cheerleader.....go GM. Whooooa.
Sorry guys I had too.
How about a GM cheerleader.....go GM. Whooooa.
Sorry guys I had too.
I wouldn't have figured it with a name like "Duramaximizer"
I kinda thought the Tundra was the only competition out there seeing that's the only other truck besides the F150 that gets mentioned around here.
By all means, cheer away!
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 937
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by jimandmandy
The idea that hiring away MARKETING people is going to turn things around is another symptom of what is wrong in Detroit. PRODUCT and SERVICE is what gets you customers and keeps them. Marketing is needed, of course, but is not a substitute. GM is still on top and may very well stay there, but Toyota's "run" is far from over.
Jim
Jim
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 937
Likes: 0
Couple new ones, you don't have to look hard these days. 
Feds To Inspect Pickup Trucks After I-Team Investigation
Drivers Say Vehicle Has Unexplained Acceleration Problems
Reported by Jeremy Finley
POSTED: 4:14 pm CDT October 8, 2007
UPDATED: 10:31 pm CDT October 8, 2007
Excerpt: "It was just trying to go 120 mph. I was pressing on the brakes as hard as I could, and it was just going forward out of control," said Pratt.
There is also a similar case of this happening to a 2007 Tacoma driver in San Diego.
"The engine just revved up and took off, and I thought I was going to die. I was going to crash,” said Tacoma driver Paul Rohal.
Now Toyotas are trying to kill their owners. Oh what a feeling!
http://www.wsmv.com/news/14295351/detail.html
That's not all: http://www.wsmv.com/iteam/14304072/detail.html
Uh oh: http://www.kpho.com/video/14310861/index.html
Toyota to fix 600,000 Sienna minivans
10/24/07, 05:33pm, EDT
Toyota has announced that it will voluntarily fix a defect in 600,000 2004-2006 Sienna minivans. Since the majority of the Siennas effected have past their 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, Toyota is issuing a warranty enhancement to vehicles with up to 100,000 miles. Toyota is not calling the situation a recall.
The warranty enhancement service is being performed due to a bad spot weld on the Sienna's front doors that could possibly fail, causing the doors swing freely and unexpectedly shut. Toyota will also reimburse those owners who have already had the problem fixed. The Japanese automaker will inform Sienna owners of the problem through a letter to be sent out on November 2.
While Toyota isn't calling the situation a recall, it only adds to mounting quality concerns as the company attempts to become the world's largest automaker.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-to-fix-600000-sienna-minivans.html
Toyota fixing 600,000 Sienna doors, but it's not a recall mind you: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/24/toyota-fixing-600-000-sienna-doors-but-its-not-a-recall-mind-y/
Don't Call it a Recall: Toyota to Fix 600,000 Siennas: http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/10/dont-call-it-a-.html
Feds To Inspect Pickup Trucks After I-Team Investigation
Drivers Say Vehicle Has Unexplained Acceleration Problems
Reported by Jeremy Finley
POSTED: 4:14 pm CDT October 8, 2007
UPDATED: 10:31 pm CDT October 8, 2007
Excerpt: "It was just trying to go 120 mph. I was pressing on the brakes as hard as I could, and it was just going forward out of control," said Pratt.
There is also a similar case of this happening to a 2007 Tacoma driver in San Diego.
"The engine just revved up and took off, and I thought I was going to die. I was going to crash,” said Tacoma driver Paul Rohal.
Now Toyotas are trying to kill their owners. Oh what a feeling!
http://www.wsmv.com/news/14295351/detail.html
That's not all: http://www.wsmv.com/iteam/14304072/detail.html
Uh oh: http://www.kpho.com/video/14310861/index.html
Toyota to fix 600,000 Sienna minivans
10/24/07, 05:33pm, EDT
Toyota has announced that it will voluntarily fix a defect in 600,000 2004-2006 Sienna minivans. Since the majority of the Siennas effected have past their 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, Toyota is issuing a warranty enhancement to vehicles with up to 100,000 miles. Toyota is not calling the situation a recall.
The warranty enhancement service is being performed due to a bad spot weld on the Sienna's front doors that could possibly fail, causing the doors swing freely and unexpectedly shut. Toyota will also reimburse those owners who have already had the problem fixed. The Japanese automaker will inform Sienna owners of the problem through a letter to be sent out on November 2.
While Toyota isn't calling the situation a recall, it only adds to mounting quality concerns as the company attempts to become the world's largest automaker.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-to-fix-600000-sienna-minivans.html
Toyota fixing 600,000 Sienna doors, but it's not a recall mind you: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/10/24/toyota-fixing-600-000-sienna-doors-but-its-not-a-recall-mind-y/
Don't Call it a Recall: Toyota to Fix 600,000 Siennas: http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2007/10/dont-call-it-a-.html
Last edited by Big Bad; Oct 25, 2007 at 10:45 AM.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 42,561
Likes: 423
From: Long Island USA
Read this yesterday and it's been nagging me for 24 hours 
4WD's are heavier than 2WD's.
4WD's will get muddy and wet, and get more suspension flex, and be put through more abuse powertrain wise, while 2WD's will not (as much).
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
Someone please esplain how being 4WD or 2WD can affect some of the systems???? (in other words, brakes are the same, engines are the same, fuel system is the same whether 2 or 4WD....how can they have different ratings??)
4WD's will get muddy and wet, and get more suspension flex, and be put through more abuse powertrain wise, while 2WD's will not (as much).