Diesels in the 48-60 effies
#46
Looks like I will be able to rivive this thread a bit.
I have been working on a 1956 diesel swap since I moved here to NC last December. I bought the truck with the intention of putting a Cummins Diesel in. I'm a Diesel NUT by the way, but I'm not a technical guru.
I have a Merdedes diesel and the engines though durable and love WVO they are weak on power and TQ. Your biggest issue is not the engine as that is easy to crank a bit more HP out with fuel adjustments and an intercooler (a friend did it), but your transmission. The Auto's on the cars were durable as they lasted a long time but they were slush boxes and if you turn it up and ever tried to pull something you wouldn't last long. Though I've seen some wagons pull some pretty big loads before so it can be done. I think the 3.0L Turbo comes in at 110HP and I don't remember TQ but I think in the 170s.
The Cummins 6bt, I THINK would fit. But you have a weight issue. If I remember right dry wieght is 1100lbs....way more than your 460 (so I think). but the Cummins 4BT (though very hard to find with a P-pump) is about 700 dry. There are issues with the unbalanced engine and vibrations but I will have to see it for myself to beleive it. I think most of the people who say that are used to their acura's.
The powerstroke is not a bad engine (I have one as well) but I would go with the 7.3L non powerstroke. Can be had for nothing still in the truck and is an easier swap. I'm not fond of the power behind the powerstroke though. Power an be made just lots of time necessary to get it there and the fuel mileage just isn't there.
There is also the 1.9L VW TDI which is a bit harder to get but can be had as well as the 1.6L VW engines and Audi made a few here and there. But you would be lucky to get from 0-60 this year. Sorta the same way with the Mercedes 2.4L.
As far as frame mods I boxed in my entire frame (have not done the front yet as I'm sure I have some mods to do) but I just did it becuase I was going all the way down so might as well. My truck came with a Twin I beam front end out of a 70's ford so i'm not to worried about the front end. I am worried about the height of the 4bt I am putting in there. It is a VERY tall engine. Problem with the I-beam and I didn't think of it at purchase is I may have to make some oil pump and pan mods to fit over the engine cross memeber as I can not lower it any more becuase of the I beams.
I have a 9" Ford rear end with 2.75 gears(I think). I'm sure she will get close to that 30MPG mark depending on what transmission I go with.
I figure she will weigh a tad bit more than she did than the stroker that was in it before, but with the added rear sway bar and soon to be front, as well as a boxed in frame I am not worried. She should handle well.
I hope to add more to this soon. I should be picking up a 4bt very soon as I'm just finishing some body work on my 56 now and am ready for the engine and tranny mods so I can fit them take them, take them out, and then paint. YES.
If you have an hour to read you can track my progress on my truck here. ENJOY and I look forward to working on this project with all of you.
http://schumanautomotive.com/forums/...ead.php?t=2169
LATER
I have been working on a 1956 diesel swap since I moved here to NC last December. I bought the truck with the intention of putting a Cummins Diesel in. I'm a Diesel NUT by the way, but I'm not a technical guru.
I have a Merdedes diesel and the engines though durable and love WVO they are weak on power and TQ. Your biggest issue is not the engine as that is easy to crank a bit more HP out with fuel adjustments and an intercooler (a friend did it), but your transmission. The Auto's on the cars were durable as they lasted a long time but they were slush boxes and if you turn it up and ever tried to pull something you wouldn't last long. Though I've seen some wagons pull some pretty big loads before so it can be done. I think the 3.0L Turbo comes in at 110HP and I don't remember TQ but I think in the 170s.
The Cummins 6bt, I THINK would fit. But you have a weight issue. If I remember right dry wieght is 1100lbs....way more than your 460 (so I think). but the Cummins 4BT (though very hard to find with a P-pump) is about 700 dry. There are issues with the unbalanced engine and vibrations but I will have to see it for myself to beleive it. I think most of the people who say that are used to their acura's.
The powerstroke is not a bad engine (I have one as well) but I would go with the 7.3L non powerstroke. Can be had for nothing still in the truck and is an easier swap. I'm not fond of the power behind the powerstroke though. Power an be made just lots of time necessary to get it there and the fuel mileage just isn't there.
There is also the 1.9L VW TDI which is a bit harder to get but can be had as well as the 1.6L VW engines and Audi made a few here and there. But you would be lucky to get from 0-60 this year. Sorta the same way with the Mercedes 2.4L.
As far as frame mods I boxed in my entire frame (have not done the front yet as I'm sure I have some mods to do) but I just did it becuase I was going all the way down so might as well. My truck came with a Twin I beam front end out of a 70's ford so i'm not to worried about the front end. I am worried about the height of the 4bt I am putting in there. It is a VERY tall engine. Problem with the I-beam and I didn't think of it at purchase is I may have to make some oil pump and pan mods to fit over the engine cross memeber as I can not lower it any more becuase of the I beams.
I have a 9" Ford rear end with 2.75 gears(I think). I'm sure she will get close to that 30MPG mark depending on what transmission I go with.
I figure she will weigh a tad bit more than she did than the stroker that was in it before, but with the added rear sway bar and soon to be front, as well as a boxed in frame I am not worried. She should handle well.
I hope to add more to this soon. I should be picking up a 4bt very soon as I'm just finishing some body work on my 56 now and am ready for the engine and tranny mods so I can fit them take them, take them out, and then paint. YES.
If you have an hour to read you can track my progress on my truck here. ENJOY and I look forward to working on this project with all of you.
http://schumanautomotive.com/forums/...ead.php?t=2169
LATER
Last edited by addicted56; 11-17-2007 at 09:42 PM.
#48
I saw a 4bt at welsh equipment on a irrigation power unit and never gave it much thought until seeing people talk about them here. I then looked up the power output on cummins web site and it is alot more than what I was expecting and it is the same size displacment as a flathead 8. I am really considering this swap, turn up the pump and a few other mods and youve got 500ft lbs and around 20mpg. its small enough that a big intercooler could be used and leave plenty of room underhood. My question is does it accept the same transmissions as a 6bt. What type of trans could be used with this engine?
#49
Originally Posted by F6Guy
I saw a 4bt at welsh equipment on a irrigation power unit and never gave it much thought until seeing people talk about them here. I then looked up the power output on cummins web site and it is alot more than what I was expecting and it is the same size displacment as a flathead 8. I am really considering this swap, turn up the pump and a few other mods and youve got 500ft lbs and around 20mpg. its small enough that a big intercooler could be used and leave plenty of room underhood. My question is does it accept the same transmissions as a 6bt. What type of trans could be used with this engine?
#50
Join Date: Nov 1999
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Originally Posted by F6Guy
I saw a 4bt at welsh equipment on a irrigation power unit and never gave it much thought until seeing people talk about them here. I then looked up the power output on cummins web site and it is alot more than what I was expecting and it is the same size displacment as a flathead 8. I am really considering this swap, turn up the pump and a few other mods and youve got 500ft lbs and around 20mpg. its small enough that a big intercooler could be used and leave plenty of room underhood. My question is does it accept the same transmissions as a 6bt. What type of trans could be used with this engine?
The 4bt/turbo 400 combo is pretty common in Frito Lay trucks. Several vendors build an adapter for Ford trannys. So I guess you are limited to Ford, GM, Dodge and the Allison 1000 pattern.
#52
56 coe/5.9 Cummins
I don't know if this is useful or not but here goes. I haven't finished truck yet but have driven it around a bit. I put a 92 , 5.9 ***. into a 56 Merc.500 coe, so I can't see any great problems putting one in a 350 or larger conventional. I think front end weight could be a problem with anything smaller than a 350. I picked a 92 Dodge doner as there is no need to use the doner computer. I basically bought the entire doner for $3500. Removed entire 56 cab, modified 56 rad support (#16138) & hood locking panel (#16717) for Dodge rad, built bolt in cross members for engine & trans mounts. Easy instale. Had to modify floor a fair bit, can't use bench seat as have 5spd. and 4spd "A"- box. Two things I haven't worked out yet are the speedo & tach but sure it is doable. Can get more detailed if anyone wants more info. Glad to help if I can
#53
#54
#57
Well im just going to throw two options out that might work for the smaller trucks. the first one i thought of was the 4 cyl diesels that came in the first generation ford rangers. I think they were made by Mazda but i haven't looked at them for a while. This could be an option for an f100 but probably would be low on power but with a rebuild and maybe a turbo it could work.
the second thing i thought of was a Deutz diesel that was in a ditch witch i worked on once. It was hooked up to a version of the T-18 trans just like was used in the trucks but with a different input shaft. I think this option would also be pretty low on power and i think it was air cooled so it might overheat in a road application. Just throwing those out there but i have not been around either very much so i don't know if either would really be viable but they could maybe work for f100s. And the Deutz sure would look cool.
the second thing i thought of was a Deutz diesel that was in a ditch witch i worked on once. It was hooked up to a version of the T-18 trans just like was used in the trucks but with a different input shaft. I think this option would also be pretty low on power and i think it was air cooled so it might overheat in a road application. Just throwing those out there but i have not been around either very much so i don't know if either would really be viable but they could maybe work for f100s. And the Deutz sure would look cool.
#59
I did a 5.9 cummins conversion on my 56 f600, been driving it a couple years now.
Very happy with it.
I used a 94 f700 as a donor truck but only used the engine and fuel tank. Used a 6 sp fuller fs5306 out of a 95 f750 + 4sp spicer aux. and a dana 80 rear end from a 99 freightliner mt 45 (step van)3.31 ratio
Very happy with it.
I used a 94 f700 as a donor truck but only used the engine and fuel tank. Used a 6 sp fuller fs5306 out of a 95 f750 + 4sp spicer aux. and a dana 80 rear end from a 99 freightliner mt 45 (step van)3.31 ratio
#60
Deutz Deasel Engines
Well im just going to throw two options out that might work for the smaller trucks. the first one i thought of was the 4 cyl diesels that came in the first generation ford rangers. I think they were made by Mazda but i haven't looked at them for a while. This could be an option for an f100 but probably would be low on power but with a rebuild and maybe a turbo it could work.
the second thing i thought of was a Deutz diesel that was in a ditch witch i worked on once. It was hooked up to a version of the T-18 trans just like was used in the trucks but with a different input shaft. I think this option would also be pretty low on power and i think it was air cooled so it might overheat in a road application. Just throwing those out there but i have not been around either very much so i don't know if either would really be viable but they could maybe work for f100s. And the Deutz sure would look cool.
the second thing i thought of was a Deutz diesel that was in a ditch witch i worked on once. It was hooked up to a version of the T-18 trans just like was used in the trucks but with a different input shaft. I think this option would also be pretty low on power and i think it was air cooled so it might overheat in a road application. Just throwing those out there but i have not been around either very much so i don't know if either would really be viable but they could maybe work for f100s. And the Deutz sure would look cool.