Well guys I see the problem is still there. From the sound of it everyone has gone thru a bunch of stuff to try and cure it. I have a question, what are you driving the back wheels with standard or automatic? The FE engines suffered with the temp rising in traffic since 1958 I know because I had a 352. At that time I never made a connection between the transmission and the problem. If you guys are running automatics perhaps additional cooling there will help. Kotzy

 

i know the head gaskets are on properly, because i put them in, matching all the ports instead of just relying on the top front markings on the gaskets. (BTW, the markings are almost always rite). after rebuilding over a dozen FE engines, i am well versed in head gasket placement problems on these engines.
you learn real quick to put them on properly after you have to have a loaded 15 ton dump truck towed off the road cause the fresh engine overheated due to improperly installed head gaskets. .

the only thing i have left to doubt is the timing, and harmonic balancer.
there are no marks on the balancer to set the timing by a light, or check total advance, so it is set by ear.

the funny thing about this 428 is that i have it set the same way i have set all the other FE engines. that includes 2 331's, 1 360, 2 390's, 2 391's, and the 427 highriser that is in my Buddy's 68 pickup.
they all run at 190º all day long without a problem.

i am really thinking there is an obstruction in the block or heads limiting coolant flow, cause the car sat covered and forgotten about in a barn for 25 years before i got it.

 

Hi John,

That could also be true. But the shop that did the rebuild is one of th emost reputable in San Siego. I'm going to try the little stuff first and break in the engine a little more over the winter here before getting into the engine itself. A little later today, I'm going to take the IR gun I bought ("Bear" made me do it dear) and take a look for engine hot spots as Bear suggested. I would think that if it shows I have hot spots on one side of the engine, that might support the gasket theory. But also, based on what Alvin added last night about fan depth in the shroud, I need to cut the duct around the shroud off about an inch. What he said is absolutely corret about fans but I didn't realize we were dealing with only 30% coverage as opposed to 50 or 75%. When I had the shroud made I was looking as much at using it for safety (with the tilt top the fan is completely within reach on three sides) as cooling. I also thought of another thing. I have an Edelbrock aluminum intake maniford on the engine and the mechanical temp gauge is in it. I'm wondering if with the tremendous amount of air flow I have blowing through this engine compartment at speed, if perhaps some of the heat isn't being drawn off the manifold (which will absorb and discharge het at a substantially faster rate than that 100lb stock cast iron monster) and when we stop the coolant heats the manifold up to the real temp the coolant is flowing at. Interesting. I think my IR gun should tell me that too.

As far as ideas, I don't mean to sound like a know it all as some have suggested (rightfully), but when I bought this truck I did so because the body was rust free and all the "hardware/chrome/stuff" was still on it. But it was subjected to a previous HORRIBLE "restoration" that has me just completely stripping out systems and replacing them. Shoot this truck doesn't have that much wiring, but when I stripped there were over 150 (we counted) solderless crimp connectors holding it together. So, I've had to do a lot of research and I have just about every book/document/manual on these trucks and this engine system imaginable. I think one of the reasons these forums are such a great thing is because no one knows everything but if we can all exchange what we have learned, or what our assets contain, then that helps everyone out. Plus, I have some experience in other areas (having worked on/tested the planes and rockets) and some of those processes/theories can be applied too. Thanks for the compliment!

I'm going to go play with my new IR gun - I engraved my SSN in it it's new name "Bear." (poor Bear - I'm always picking on him)!

Dan

 

Hey TJC,

Old Clayton set my timing with a vacuum gauge. You can try it if you like, but if not let me know and I'll go out and take some careful measurements on my balance and try to give you a ball park mark for your balance.

Clayton static timed the distributor at TDC. Then he disconnected the distributor vacuum advance, hooked up the vacuum gauge, and started the engine. He set the engine at the correct idle RPM then read the vacuum gauge. he slowly(about 2 degrees at a shot) advanced the distributor to show a maximum amount of vacuum, then reset the idle rpm. He did this a number of times until advancing the distributor started to show a drop in vacuum. He went back to the maximun vacuum position with the distributor, the RETARDED the timing in order to drop (not as much vacuum) the reading by 2 (two) pounds. I had originally painted the 6 degree before and the 12 degree before TDC lines on the balance. The vacuum timing procedure advance it to 14 DBTDC, which would support the 65 Ford MAnuals claim that timing could be advanced up to five additional degrees for performance. I figure that 2 Degrees helps compensate for my RV cam.

Good luck,
Dan

 

that is basically how i set timing also dan. i do it by ear with a combination of vacuum, carb setting, and listening for ping ar full throttle. after i get it where i want it, i will do a few hot starts to see if it fires rite up, or turns slow. as it is currently set, it cranks at the same speed hot or cold, just like all the others. that is why i am leaning towards a blockage. .

 

[QUOTE=Sandidande]When one works on an engine family like the FE for the first time as I am, I simply find that the experience of those who have done it before invaluable rather than reinventing the wheel. No one (except maybe beemer) knows everything. [QUOTE=Sandidande].

[QUOTE=Sandidande]The last engine I rebuilt was a Packard built Rolls-Royce V-1650-9 Merlin.[QUOTE=Sandide]

Those are your words "knows everything" coming out of your orfice, which one is a guess.

Sounds like you still have a overheating with your 390 PI motor sorry to hear that. Even with the 454 FE I built back in 72 I did not have overheating problems with only a 3 row radiator pulling trailer with 3.54 gears.


Congradulations you have worked on one of the best V-12's ever built.

Back in 73 I had a couple of the lesser 1710 motors that I ended up selling to the hydro racers.

Question; you have your A&P license to go with those motor builds?

Have a safe holiday Dan.

 

This can still depend on the type of fan you're using. Some fans have "dog ears" bent over at the fan tips and they can be run with most of the blade inside of the fan shroud. If the fan has straight blades a large amount of air is slung off the end of the fan blades by centrigugal force. The type of shroud our trucks are using has a very small fan collar with large, steep sides tapering down to it, so if the fan is too far inside the shroud the air coming off the fan tips can fill the shroud to the point of stalling the airflow through the radiator, or even reversing the flow enough that you will be able to feel a small breeze coming out of the front of the radiator. Once you get rolling again the wind coming through the grill will get the air flowing in the right direction again.

I just looked at my truck, it's got all the stock front drive accessories it came with from the factory, '76 F-150, 390, mt, air and heavy duty cooling system. It has the 7 blade non-clutch type fan and it's face is flush with the back of the fan shroud.

 

Hey Beemer,

We not here to have to listen to your attitude or crap. If you don't have anything constructive to add why don't you shut up and get off the air.

Dan

 

Man oh man. Guess my trucks not the only thing overheatin around here.--I want a clean fight boys!--

 

Hi 73F100...
Sorry about the verbal vomit on your post. I'm not sure what this guys problem is. But I do know why I'm here and that's to share ideas about cars and engines with a great and experienced group of guys (ok girls)/folks and have some fun learning new things. I'm just saying "hey I did this or I did that and what I learned there may apply." As far as Beemer is concerned, I have a list of licenses and certifications that are probably longer than his wienee (all 4 1/2 inches of it), along with a very distinguished military record that frankly doesn't need to be discussed as part of this forum. I just want to talk to some guys who know STUFF about Ford FE engines and learn some more things to fine tune my restoration to work a little better - and have some fun. I learned in my time working on the thunderboats and my 24 years in the service that there is always some dick head like beemer who has to use any opportunity he can get to demonstrate what a "big man" he is. They just are obscessed with trying to look important by belittling other people who are more satisfied with themselves and who they are. Maybe he's gay or I don't understand his frustrations and issues - don't need to - what ever (and no insult intended to our gay contributors BTW) I'm done with that and putting up with it. I would also say that I would surely appreciate any sound techincal comment she has, but the pissy poo beemer doo is very un necessary from both of us (and I'll stop now). Lets all get back to talking about our Ford Trucks and having fun learning new stuff from a great group of guys.

Sorry again about having this on your post.

By the way, I took Bears advice today and scoped out my engine with the tool(IR heat gun)he recommended I buy. I found out two things. First, the temperature reading at the head of my mechanical temp gauge (in my aluminum intake manifold) was close to 40 degrees cooler after high speed running than the coolant coming out of the radiator upper hose - says that the gauge input end might be in a cool spot when the truck is running at speed (thermocouple is getting wind cooled) After idling a few minutes, that intake manifold warmed up quite a bit, and closed the delta between the temp at the thermocouple head and the engine out coolant hose. I also did a few weird things: I measured the temp of the firewall after a long freeway run and then after idle for 10 minutes. The temperature difference was fenominal. So, I'm wondering if the PERCIEVED overheating thing I was thinking about was actually an overly sensative reading on the gauge because I have so much cold air space at speed and it gets hot when I stop. In other words, the gauge is reading a summation of the massive cool air flowing over the engine with influence from the warm coolant. When that cool air flow stops and becomes warm from the heat flowing off the engine, is the AIR then heating up the thermocouple to make it appear it is overheating? In short, is the thermocouple not deep enough in the engine to measure STABLE true engine temp, but rather partial ambient air temp outside. Maybe the overflow is because I have too much coolant in the engine as someone suggested earlier. Interesting problem - might not be a problem....OBTW my exwife dropped my son off for Christmas today and I shot my "Bear" gun at her ***....still ice cold - tee hee. Hey Bear, I love my new toy...You were right. I think I'll zap the widow lady next door with it tomorrow - oh baby!

Ok, I'm Ok!

Dan

DD

 

Sandané I didnt have the patience or gut toy read the entire post so pardon my intruding if so.. have you used a thermo to read the actual temp of the coolant ? I read where your visual guide was a 53? year old dummy gauge on the dash.. I wuldnt rely on that for a doo dah really.. if it never popped it's top.. I'd get a thermo and drop it in the radiator...if this was already put out there sorry.. I lost patience with the thread..


PS the most respected person in my life (Grandfather) said to me "a man who brags on himself and yet takes the time to shun others, aint worth a ****"

 

Mechanical gauge Bobby, verified with a thermostat.

Just to clarify Dan, you measured the intake surface at the sender with the engine at RPM above idle, and the coolant temp at the radiator neck?

"the coolant coming out of the radiator upper hose" has me a little confused as to what you are actually measuring there.

 

What I measured was the tempurature (I'm assuming with the IR gun) was the tempurature of the intake manifold where the thermocouple for the mehanical temp gauge was mounted, and the temp of the of the surface of the thermostat housing. The thermocouple housing was 40 degress cooler. This was done within a minute of a fast drive. As I stood there taking measurements, with the engine idling, the temp differenc between the two closed to within 5 degrees. I'm thinking that with the surplus airflow I have in the engine compartment, maybe the thermostat thermocouple mountung is being cooled with air flow when the thruck is moving, and absorbing heat when it is at idle. I checked the coolant temp with a thermometer and at idle it climbs to 245 dgf before I secure the engine. Gauge is off the scale at that point . Gauge was calibrated to be within 5 degrees.

Thanks,
Dan

 

Hey Redmanbob,

I get what you are saying. Ah the days of our grandfathers. That was when some smart *** walked up to them on the street (because they didn't have computer web sites to hide in) and say something insulting, they usually got busted in the mouth. That seemed to be a pretty good deterent to keep people in line. As far as your grandfathers quote, it's a good one. How I respond is simple - no brag, just fact. And finally once again I'll try and keep this gripe short. I'm not on this sight to deal with everyones social problems, need to bad mouth because it's there deal, or deal with punks who don't like the way I try to explain things. I'm not here to do "Group Theropy" as some of these folks seem to think this is what this is for. I just want to talk about engines and cars got it, savy, understand? I'm a mirror, look in and smile and you get a smile back. Flip the mirror off and it's got the same message for you. Lets talk cars ok guys?

 

I took the old mans words as "food for thought" and put them out there as such. They were directed at no one, as we all know we fall short of perfection