I have run K&N filters on Fords before and had problems
on some with MAF contamination from being oil coated.
Ford specifically recommends against oil impregnated
filters on V-8 SHOs.

Any issues with K&N filters in V-10s?

Any dyno verified gains from filter only?

-Jim
2001 E450 V10

 

>Any issues with K&N filters in V-10s?

AT least on users here that I know of ran into hte MAF sensor going bad. Although many of us feel that he coulda just cleaned the wire. But then again...none of us really saw the failed MAF.

>Any dyno verified gains from filter only?

Yes. But the accuracy depends on who funded the test. A K&N filter, to me, has always been more about reduced air filter purchases for the life of the vehicle rather than performance improvements. The added airflow improvement is a bonus, IMO.

Any gain would most likely manifest itself way at the top of the RPM range. A place most truck engines rarely venture.

Remember the rule. If you improve airflow in, you've gotta improve airflow out.

 

We'll see...

In a fit of weakness, I put a FIPK Gen II on my 2001 F-250 Crew Cab V-10. It seems to have better throttle response (may be my imagination) and I'll let you know if it tows my travel trailer with more authority at some later date. Even though it is a 4x4, I don't take this thing "off road" like I do my Jeep. Some dust in it's future, but mostly paved-road miles.

If I were planning on a dusty life for it, I would keep the stock paper filters for peace of mind.

Edmo

 

Monsta,

When I had oil contamination of the MAF, I just cleaned it and it
worked fine again - but I was VERY careful.

If you actually reduce the pressure drop across the filter say
.5 psi or whatever, you should see gains all across the power
band, I would think. I'd love to see the real deal someone has
run on a dyno just as joe user. Hard for me to find dyno's that
will go 13,000 or 14,000 pounds!

I can live with high RPM gain, too, however. A big heavy vehicle
like mine spends a lot of time at high rpms compared to a "light"
vehicle like an Excursion (relatively speaking!), especially on
long uphill grades. Part of it is the 4.6x gears. The class A motor
homes are worse - some of them are 20,000 pounds and climb steep
grades at the top of 1st gear, engine screaming near the top of the rpm range for miles.

I think it is for this reason Banks can get such absurd prices
from people for stealing low RPM power and shifting it up higher
in the band on motorhomes.

I suppose I'll probably just get a K&N for the v-10 and make enough
G-Tech runs in the E-450 with and without to convince myself as to
whether or not it helps. The parts store will take it back if I don't
like it.

It will be kind of silly looking since a typical MH does 0-60 in like
17-40 seconds!

-Jim
2001 E-450 v-10

 

Jim, can you tell us exactly what steps you did to clean your MAF? Thx.

 

I used to run K&N filters on my race cars and street rod motors exclusively. They really do work. However, you will not see an incredibly noticable improvement unless you get the exhaust system to breath better also. As was stated above, anytime you put more air into the engine, you MUST be able to get that extra airflow out the other end in the same increased fashion in order to see improvement. An easy way to visualize this is thinking of a funnel. Yeah, a funnel like you put oil in your engine with. Dont laugh, just follow along. If you have two funnels with teh same size exit hole, but one has a larger bowl, you will be able to put more liquid in the larger one. BUT, it will not flow into the engine any faster unless you enlarge the exit hole. Same basic principal. You cant make an engine breath better by just changing the air filter alone. Relieve some back pressure in your exhaust system and see what happens. then you will start to see some changes.

 

I agree that if you want to maximize an already balanced system
it has to breathe in and out, but you can still see a gain by
increasing only one side, especially in an unbalanced system.

Also, it is not as simple as just good flow in and out. Both intake
and exhaust have a natural frequency where they flow best, and they
are seldom the same in any stock system. Most mods change natural
frequency. Matched intake and exhaust at one RPM are seldom matched
at any other unless they are exactly the same natural frequency.
Start adding in cross overs and scavenging and you are way out of
my league to design the thing without at least some flow stands.

To understand why you don't always have to improve both intake and
exhaust, picture a supercharged vehicle climbing a mountain. At
10,000 feet, you only have to run the intake with more air - there
is already plenty of capacity in the exhaust system. Smaller pulley,
more air, off you go.

For a less artificial example, picture putting a super charger on
a stock vehicle - it will absolutely give you a gain with the stock
exhaust. It will just give you more hp with a more free flowing
exhaust, the point above I think.

For cleaning a MAF, what I did 3 different times was spray it with carb cleaner, then VERY GENTLY use a qtip or paper towl to just
brush against the wire on my SHOs. The q-tip left some cotton
strands I had to pick away with tweezers. This caused the SHO check
engine light not to relight after clearing the codes. After a few
months with the K&N, the MAF would oil up and the code would sho up
until the next cleaning and reset. See www.shotimes.com for info if it is still around (been a few years since I hung out there).

-Jim

 

Dont' forget that there are two setups that are often considered the same (wrongly): A K&N Filter -- and -- A K&N FIPK.

You can buy JUST a K&N filter to fit in your factory airbox. I have yet to see REAL data to warrant this.

But, you can ALSO buy a K&N FIPK. This is a new snorkel and air filter combo. This is usually the setup that people are speaking of when they say they are improving intake flow.

Just make sure you know which one is being discussed... especially if you are making a purchase decision.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 06-Aug-02 AT 01:34 AM (EST)]ok im plannin on getting the FIPK setup..i already have a borla cat back exhaust...now if i get the FIPK do i need to adjust the trucks computer in anyway??

if i do i prob wont get the FIPK if i dont i will get it..i just dont wanna mess with the trucks computer. thks

btw i have a 2002 f350 v10 4x4

 

As I understand it, no. In general, an intake mod does not require reprogramming the PCM tables. The Mass Air Flow sensor in the intake will sense more air and the PCM will adjust accordingly. If you change the MAF or it's location without engineering it carefully, you might need a recalibrated chip. I think the K&N kit is designed not to require recalibration.

-Jim
2001 E-450 Superduty

 

>In a fit of weakness, I put a FIPK Gen II on my 2001 F-250
>Crew Cab V-10. It seems to have better throttle response
>(may be my imagination) and I'll let you know if it tows my
>travel trailer with more authority at some later date. Edmo

All race cars/performance cars have low restriction/no restriction air intake systems and some sort of 'ram-air' system. The more air in the better. Look at the Indy cars, Formula 1 cars, Nascar, any of them. They all go out of their way to force air into their engines with air scoops, NACA ducts, whatever. So theoretically anything like the K&N FIPK has to help boost HP. It may not be noticable on the 'seat of the pants dyno", but it MUST help. The K&N system is a good one, the dirtier (up to a point) the filter gets the better it works. And it is cost effective over the long run as it's washable and re-usable. The drop in K&N filter doesn't add anything but cost-effectiveness as it still resides in the factory box, which is designed to be quiet first, and efficient second. Unless you get the intake portion out in the airstream you can't gain any increased airflow and therefore you can't gain HP. I've seen a few guys who run a tube into the fenderwell, or past the radiator bulkhead, or under the radiator. Once you get air being forced into your engine you will see HP gains. Otherwise you just get to put a few buck$ in your pocket everytime you don't have to shell out pesos @Wally World for a disposable paper filter.

Ken 98 E-350 XLT V-10 ClubWagon.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 06-Aug-02 AT 07:51 PM (EST)]>ok im plannin on getting the FIPK setup..i already have a
>borla cat back exhaust...now if i get the FIPK do i need to
>adjust the trucks computer in anyway??
>
>if i do i prob wont get the FIPK if i dont i will get it..i
>just dont wanna mess with the trucks computer. thks


I have the same setup with a Grannatelli (sp?) MAF.
The only trouble so far has been 2 [Link:www.fordtrucks.com/dcforum/DCForumID43/215.html|SES] codes just after the install.

When on two wheels-
FXSTC
Mesa- AZ

2003, F-350, Lariat, V10, CC, LWB, Dark Shadow Grey, 6sp Manual, Non-ESOF FX4, 4.30, Camper Pkg, et. al.

 

Ken - well said, though I have seen situations where the K&N's flowed 1-2 hp better than a fresh factory filter, the vast majority are as you say. Interestingly, a 5k old K&N will flow a lot better than many 5k paper filters.

K&N or not, for max performance reduce intake restriction - at least run a clean air filters with a lot of pleats to give the poor engine some air.

-Jim
2001 E-450 Superduty

 

OK I had a cold air induction added to a mustang that I once had. On a dyno it added 15hp WOW! Only problem was they were at the very top and showed nothing at the drag strip. You needed to shift before you reached the gain to hit the torque peek.
Since then I have stayed away form high priced after maket filters. Another reason is more air means more dirt I have seen damage on a quad before.
So I read what you guy say but can't see that it would be a noticible improvment in day to day use?

 

IMO, you are right on. Save you a few bucks over the truck's life, maybe gain a couple of ponies, but nothing the butt dyno would pick up. Now a cold air induction kit, that can make a difference if you have the exhaust to match.

I have always wanted to have a ram air setup. I did it one time on a car by removing the obstruction in front of the stock intake, but could not measure and difference on my g-tech.

-Jim
2001 E-450 Superduty