Yup, entropy is a mean ol' witch ain't she?

Ditto. Now if you can somehow STORE the H2 and O2 to use them only when you need them to give you a boost (pulling a big hill for example) then I could see the benefit. You'd be using extra energy when you didn't need it (tooling along) and saving some of it up for a boost when you do need it (climbing the hill).

Only trouble is that driving around with a storage container of H2 and another of O2 - or worse yet one container with a mixture of both in it - is like driving around with a bottle of nitro glycerine in your truck. Not for me thanks....

 

That might be a possibility. I don't know if there is any use to store the oxygen - plenty of that in the air. The other issue will be that the hydrogen isn't going to compress itself. So you either wind up hauling a blimp around or running a compressor would surely gobble up all your extra power.

A way better system would be to charge up a couple of batteries with your downhill power and drive an electric motor somewhere in the power train. At least that would give you a mechanical > electrical > mechanical power cycle instead of mechanical > electrical > chemical > mechanical. Plus electric motors can top out in the mid 90's for efficiency.

 

Au-contrare my friend. Adding extra O2 to the combusion process (along with more fuel) is the whole point of NOX. If you're going to the trouble and expending the energy to separate the H2 and O2 might as well make use of both.

Same for the O2. Any way you look at it I can't see how to make this a practical benefit. Wonder if maybe THAT is why there aren't systems like this for sale in the marketplace - rather than it being due to some huge government oil/conglomerate conspiracy?

 

Quick answers:
1. There are 2 general techniques that I have come across. The first one simply applies a voltage between 2 plates. The current that flows between the plates determines the rate of electrolosis. The ideal current in this format is about 20 amps. The second technique is similar to the first with the addition of a coil in the solution that has a electrical signal pulsed through it. This technique uses a few hundred milliamps and theoretically runs on tap water alone.

2 and 3: Generally, Hydrogen burns much much faster than diesel. Pre-ignition problems can exist. Generally, two types of Hydrogen can be produced; ortho-hydrogen and para-hydrogen. Ortho-hydrogen is the very volatile type and is produced using basic electrolosis. Para-Hydrogen has burning characteristics similar to propane.

4: I don't think you would qualify for a tax credit by retrofitting an older vehicle. New vehicles that run on alternative fuels would qualify. The tax code favors investment in new vehicles made by large corporations instead of smart individuals who want to make difference.

Go to some of the web sites I've linked to in my other posts. There is complete instructions and pictures available. Do alot of reading and research before deciding if you ant to do this on a vehicle. Try it out on a lawnmower or snowblower. These applications would be easier to implement on since they dont have computer controlled engines.

 

Friech, ya still missed my point but that is ok.
Im only interested in introducing what I make into the intake side which is then compressed via the turbo and injected into the diesel engine.

I dont want to nor plan on 100 percent run on h2, I just thought it would be nice and clean umph...lol

I was kidding about the tax credit. lol

Im not gonna bother with the lawn mower and so on, its just going to be wisping of 02 and h2 into the diesels intake. Kinda like the junkyard nitrous engine hillbilly way. I am glad I did spark ideas and comments from others and sorry for any insults some may have felt.

 

I doubt that anyone took offence, and I'm glad to hear that you didn't take any. Not trying to "knock" your idea just for the heck of it, simply discussing why in theory the efficiency nuymbers say it won't help. But real world is the real test, so let us know how it turns out.

 

I bet this will love bio, hydr , o2. http://www.salvatoreaiello.com/main.shtml

 

I just have to add another $.02 in this. I have friend on another board that has been experimenting with this for a while now. He has just bought a chassis dyno and will be testing this a lot more closely. His preliminary tests [ pre dyno ] on a 2000 power stroke showed an amazing 15% INCREASE in mileage! He was so encouraged that he went looking for his own Dyno..........His theory is the additional O2 and H changes the character of the "burn" reducing the fuel need " sensed" by the governor.

I will keep all informed on his progress, as it seems there is some interest here.

If he is willing to share his findings, I will post the results, pictures, etc, here.

 

Don, If he has it chipped in any way the govenor doesnt exist anymore. The only gov in our engines is in the computer. Maybe the map sensor? or a combo of the whole characteristics. How much is he inducing? Unlike propane, this seems a viable and cheap way to increase fuel milage. Propane increases milage but then your with costs and the potential to have damage from malfunctions. Hmmmmm very interesting. Bye now

 

Talk about inefficiencies! Gas turbines aren't exactly known for MPG - power to weight ratio, sure - but not efficiency.

I'd expect his 5 gallon tank of #2 is only gonna give him about a 50-75 mile range. But what a RIDE!

 

Alright new research on my part has come up with the preliminary facts.

1. The law of thermodynamics does apply. In this situation, you are releasing the elements for energy stored in the water (not energy itself) not producing new energy.

2. 2 volts ( I cant remember the amps as of yet) can produce up to 5psi of hydrogen per liter. Not enouph to 100 percent run the engine but enouph to help the emmisions and fuel economy.

3. Older cars are easier to manipulate to run on hydrogen. For example, if you use a distributor and coil method and run that through water the upwards of 80k volts may produce enouph hydrogen to run each cylinder as each pulse tears apart the molecules.

Google it, now im gonna try and make a tiny NON fuel cell h2o splitter just to improve fuel economy in my diesel.

 

Ok built first protype with stainless steel flat rods to run current through. I tested from 2 volt to 27 volts from a DC converter at work....I EFIN rocks!!!! Bubbles of O2 and H2 churning the water from clear to white from the bubbles. Im gonna build a board that will take my 2 12volt batteries and double up to 24 into the water. Ill use a capacitor to hold some charge when the truck is shut off and put resistors inline so I dont have feedback nor run the battery down. Relay will turn on when already started and off switch for demand. I need to build a bigger version for the truck out of PVC and pipe it into the inlet.

 

Too cool Troy! Have you checked the draw in amperage, so you can figure out the wattage draw? Pictures please..............Have you tried lighting it on fire yet...............?

 

No I dont have all the tools yet. I built my lil proto from a 1 liter bottle and modified the cap to drop 2 stainless steel flat lenths into, then I sealed em and put a hole in the lid for the escaping gasses to collect into a latex glove. He he he, I dont think my new job would enjoy an explosion. Oh yeah new job. Im the assistant electrician rebuilding turbine engines. New baby...daddy needs steady income and beneeeee's.

When I get a few paychecks Ill go to the hobby shop and get 2 or 4 carbon graphite hollow rods and figure out how to attach them through the lid and attach leads to em and also use the hollow to pipeline the gasses to a holding tank. Id like to figure out a pump to compress the gasses too, but thats later. Too much going on right now in my head and my life. Gonna work on getting the big block back on the road too...gonna use a secondary coil to blow power into the water tank....Thanks Don for the expansion of my mind.

 

This is for Kennedyford I purchasehed one of those I think it's called the Hyganater or something like that its probably arround a quart and at 12 to 13 amps I could get 90 miles before adding water. This model uses potassium Hydroxide crystals you turn it on and add untill you get arround 12 to 13 amps it uses a 15 amp fuse it will blow if you go over that. The best increase in milage was highway with cruise control I went from 14.5 to 17 It currently has a leak I need to pull it and repair it. 2000 F-150 XLT 4X4