What is a Modular engine?
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Las Vegas
What is a Modular engine?
Originally posted by Lectrocuted
Check this out.http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer...IECPTech3.html [/URL]
Check this out.http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/TechSer...IECPTech3.html [/URL]
Thank you!!!! I was typing while your post came up. Good job!!!
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2001
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What is a Modular engine?
Umm...., I hate to say it, but you cannot increase the stroke by using different pistons, rods, and wrist pin locations. You can only change stroke by using a different crank setup for a different stroke.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Las Vegas
What is a Modular engine?
Originally posted by adelyser
Umm...., I hate to say it, but you cannot increase the stroke by using different pistons, rods, and wrist pin locations. You can only change stroke by using a different crank setup for a different stroke.
Umm...., I hate to say it, but you cannot increase the stroke by using different pistons, rods, and wrist pin locations. You can only change stroke by using a different crank setup for a different stroke.
What was being said was IF you use a block with the same crank centerline you can put a longer stroke crank in it and use the shorter rods and higher wrist pin locations. The stroker kits in most applications is exactly this set up.
The discussion here was that the 5.4 IS NOT a stroked 4.6. The 5.4 not only has a longer stroke, it also has longer rods. This being the case, the block MUST be taller. (unless you move your wrist pins past the top of your piston[sarcasm].
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What is a Modular engine?
The original post concerning a different stroke was this: "you can increase the stroke simply by longer rods on pistons with shorter skirts and wrist pin location higher..."
I was responding that it simply cannot be done with just these parts. In fact, none of these parts has to do with the stroke. Only the crank determines the stroke.
Now, if you do install a crank with a different (longer or shorter) stroke, I agree that you will need at least new con-rods to compensate for the new stroke and maintain the same deck height.
I guess I should have been a little clearer in my post.
I was responding that it simply cannot be done with just these parts. In fact, none of these parts has to do with the stroke. Only the crank determines the stroke.
Now, if you do install a crank with a different (longer or shorter) stroke, I agree that you will need at least new con-rods to compensate for the new stroke and maintain the same deck height.
I guess I should have been a little clearer in my post.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Las Vegas
What is a Modular engine?
Originally posted by adelyser
The original post concerning a different stroke was this: "you can increase the stroke simply by longer rods on pistons with shorter skirts and wrist pin location higher..."
I was responding that it simply cannot be done with just these parts. In fact, none of these parts has to do with the stroke. Only the crank determines the stroke.
Now, if you do install a crank with a different (longer or shorter) stroke, I agree that you will need at least new con-rods to compensate for the new stroke and maintain the same deck height.
I guess I should have been a little clearer in my post.
The original post concerning a different stroke was this: "you can increase the stroke simply by longer rods on pistons with shorter skirts and wrist pin location higher..."
I was responding that it simply cannot be done with just these parts. In fact, none of these parts has to do with the stroke. Only the crank determines the stroke.
Now, if you do install a crank with a different (longer or shorter) stroke, I agree that you will need at least new con-rods to compensate for the new stroke and maintain the same deck height.
I guess I should have been a little clearer in my post.
That's cool. I assumed the original post was using a stroker crank and was just commenting on the additional parts needed.
You obviously know what's going on.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
What is a Modular engine?
Its the same thing that went on with the old FE. You had a 360, 390, and 410 that all shared the same block. The 360 had a 3.5" stroke, the 390 a 3.78", and the 410 a 3.98". There were two rod sizes, the long rod and the short rod. They used the long rod with the 360, and the short rod with the 390 and 410. The 390 and 360 also shared pistons. They had to use a different piston on the 410, tho. I imagine the same kind of thing is going on with the 4.6 and the 5.4 mod motors.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
What is a Modular engine?
I checked the holley link you gave on the first page, and apparently they dont. This makes me wonder why not. Seems to me it would be a lot easier to make one standard block.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Long Island USA
What is a Modular engine?
Originally posted by rusty70f100
I checked the holley link you gave on the first page, and apparently they dont. This makes me wonder why not. Seems to me it would be a lot easier to make one standard block.
I checked the holley link you gave on the first page, and apparently they dont. This makes me wonder why not. Seems to me it would be a lot easier to make one standard block.
art k.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Long Island
What is a Modular engine?
Deck height is measured from the crankshaft centerline to the deck (cylinder head mounting surface) of the block. according to that Holley site.
So couldn't the 4.6 and 5.4 have the same block,with the crankshaft mounted lower on the 5.4l?
So couldn't the 4.6 and 5.4 have the same block,with the crankshaft mounted lower on the 5.4l?
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Metro Detroit
What is a Modular engine?
Don't think it could be done. Would totally screw up the geometry. It would also need a really short rod. Rod ratio on a 5.4 is nothing to brag about in the first place. 3.55 stroke vs. 4.16. If they made it a pushrod, who knows what could be done. It would more than likely be narrower.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
What is a Modular engine?
They theoretically could have the same block, if they used the 5.4 block. The 4.6 would have to use longer rods. I wonder why they didnt do it this way, as it would make more power by not side loading the pison as much. The only drawback I can see is that it would weigh more than the 4.6 does now.
P.S. I appologize for not checking the link on the first page before I made my first post in this thread.
P.S. I appologize for not checking the link on the first page before I made my first post in this thread.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
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From: Long Island USA
What is a Modular engine?
Originally posted by rusty70f100
They theoretically could have the same block, if they used the 5.4 block. The 4.6 would have to use longer rods. I wonder why they didnt do it this way, as it would make more power by not side loading the pison as much. The only drawback I can see is that it would weigh more than the 4.6 does now.
They theoretically could have the same block, if they used the 5.4 block. The 4.6 would have to use longer rods. I wonder why they didnt do it this way, as it would make more power by not side loading the pison as much. The only drawback I can see is that it would weigh more than the 4.6 does now.
As it turns out, they decided to start using the 4.6L to replace the 5.0 and found that it just didn't have enough durability and low-end torque for trucks and other heavy-duty use. So, the Windsor 4.6L came out and the 5.4L was designed. I don't think the 5.4L was a goal of the original design.
By the way, if the 4.6L had a higher deck and longer rods, I think low-end torque would suffer. The acceleration of the piston just after firing is much faster than if a longer rod was used. Also, the angle of the rod just before and after TDC provides more leverage.
At least, that's the way I've heard it.
art k.