Steering Correction With lift.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Eagle River, Alaska
http://www.sky-manufacturing.com/ford1.htm
Click on the link and scroll to the bottom.
Sky is a great guy and will answer all your questions.
Click on the link and scroll to the bottom.
Sky is a great guy and will answer all your questions.
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 30
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One warning about crossover: If you have your wheel turned so that the pitman arm is in between the frame leafspring and twist hard or hit a large bump you can break either the pitman arm or the sector shaft coming out of your steering box. I have seen this first hand(1979 F250 6" Skyjacker, Rockcrawler crossover Dana 60 front.) He broke the sector shaft.
I personally have the exact same setup as above except "push-pull". Bump steer is nothing I even notice, I have never broke a single thing, and I will never go to crossover.
My personal goal is to install hydraulic steering. I know several with, and they have no problems driving the Interstate at 75mph with 49" Iroks
I personally have the exact same setup as above except "push-pull". Bump steer is nothing I even notice, I have never broke a single thing, and I will never go to crossover.
My personal goal is to install hydraulic steering. I know several with, and they have no problems driving the Interstate at 75mph with 49" Iroks
Freshman User
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Sorry one more thing. Each of the push pull compontents (draglink, block, or pitman) are roughly $100 each. So for 6" you would need two of them since they average 2-3" each. However I bought just the drop draglink for 3". Then I cut the knuckle cap or kingpin cap (whatever it"s called) and flipped the arm over so the draglink came in from the top instead of bottom(the other 3"). Welded it and it still holds strong after 4 yrs. and 8000 miles of honest wheeling abuse.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Eagle River, Alaska
Essentially, what a crossover is doing is replicating the same exact steering setup that Ford used on ALL the 1/2 tons. The only difference between what we're doing, if your doing it correctly, is installing components that are much heavier duty than the 1/2 ton parts.
Nice to hear that your weld is holding up, but I dont think any shop or dealership would repair or replace a critical steering component that has been welded together. Thats why everything is either cast or bolted together.
Anything designed and built by man has the potential to fail so to make a statement based on one persons experience isn't fair. A crossover is the best all around alternative for any F250/F350 with 6" or more lift. It's proven and solid. Plus hydraulic steering isn't 50 states legal for highway use.
Nice to hear that your weld is holding up, but I dont think any shop or dealership would repair or replace a critical steering component that has been welded together. Thats why everything is either cast or bolted together.
Anything designed and built by man has the potential to fail so to make a statement based on one persons experience isn't fair. A crossover is the best all around alternative for any F250/F350 with 6" or more lift. It's proven and solid. Plus hydraulic steering isn't 50 states legal for highway use.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,948
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Sector shafts do break, it is not common, but it does happen. Hydro assist will remidie that. Axles break, even chro-mo's break once in a while. Just part of wheeling. Heak if there is no carnage, then you just are not trying hard enough.
One other minus side to "push pull" is the lack of steering when suspension is at full articulation. If you can actually extend the spring that is, the wheel turns in your hand, and the tires are pointed straight. The limited steering can't be over come with a push pull, and suspension cycles. Now if you are not flexing the vehicle hard enough, or your springs will not allow more than a few inches of flex, then one may never experience a problem, or even know that one exists. The same is true for a suspension that is too stiff on the highway too. Many productionlift kits for the early trucks are so stiff, and they drove poorly from the beginning, most owners do not know the difference.
Try an early truck with X-over, and you will be amazed at what you have been missing.
One other minus side to "push pull" is the lack of steering when suspension is at full articulation. If you can actually extend the spring that is, the wheel turns in your hand, and the tires are pointed straight. The limited steering can't be over come with a push pull, and suspension cycles. Now if you are not flexing the vehicle hard enough, or your springs will not allow more than a few inches of flex, then one may never experience a problem, or even know that one exists. The same is true for a suspension that is too stiff on the highway too. Many productionlift kits for the early trucks are so stiff, and they drove poorly from the beginning, most owners do not know the difference.
Try an early truck with X-over, and you will be amazed at what you have been missing.
Freshman User
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My example wasn't a case of stuff happens. My point was that crossover caused the broken sector shaft. The crossover steering pitman arms points toward the back. When you turn to the right and if you can get enough flex out of your suspension the leaf spring will come up and hit the pitman arm. If this is done hard enough or with enough weight something will break either the pitman arm, sector shaft, steering box, turn frame, something. To remmedy the problem my brother had to build a 4-6" extention to his bump stop on the front left side. Now his springs would flex but his X over is his limiting factor. I truly wanted X over until that happened. I like X over, but on lowboys it has a flaw. I am just pointing out that there are pros and cons to everything.
On the half tons the steering box is located so that this would never happen.
On the half tons the steering box is located so that this would never happen.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2006
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That is called "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"
Still can't see the spring hitting the pitman arm.
In that scenario, was a drop pitman arm used? If someone decided to use a drop pitman arm and the arm is too low, and is hitting the suspension, then that is an installation problem, and the x-over should not be blamed for that.
When you mention that a bumpstop extension had to be made to limit "up-travel", leads me to believe that there might be some installation issues here, or at the very least incorrect parts.
Still can't see the spring hitting the pitman arm.
In that scenario, was a drop pitman arm used? If someone decided to use a drop pitman arm and the arm is too low, and is hitting the suspension, then that is an installation problem, and the x-over should not be blamed for that.
When you mention that a bumpstop extension had to be made to limit "up-travel", leads me to believe that there might be some installation issues here, or at the very least incorrect parts.
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2006
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I just looked at mine and I realize I made a mistake. It is when you turn to the left. As to the pitman arms amount of drop his is no different than the stock. He even tried to turn his stock pitman 90 degrees and modify it, but it would still not fix the problem. I assure you if you sight from one leaf spring shackle to the other, note the bump stop and the pitman, it is clear that with a hard bump or twist the leaf can hit.
If you have a pitarm with less drop than stock I am sure he would be interested in where you got it. His came from Rockcrawler I believe.
I also apoligize the bump stop extention is more like 2-4"
If you have a pitarm with less drop than stock I am sure he would be interested in where you got it. His came from Rockcrawler I believe.
I also apoligize the bump stop extention is more like 2-4"
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,948
Likes: 44
No need to apologize, it is no big deal, it does sound as though there still might be another issue here though. Guess we have officially hi-jacked this thread, but it does pertain to the OP.
Anyway, my pitman arm is straight like a newer Super Duty. I run 6" springs (also SD) from an early kit, and i am about to change it to a new 6" BDS spring with 11 leafs like I just installed in my 74.
Anyway, the spring would have to bend backwards to allow the axle to raise to the point of hitting the pitman arm. The spring can't flatten out that far. If you are running a stock shackle, yours can't either. The spring eye will hit the frame before this was ever allowed to happen. The stock shackle is very short and actually is a very limiting factor in suspension travel. It is simply not able to allow a spring to flex that far. A stock neg arch spring is the only one that I know of that would have this clearence problem. That is unless the pitman arm is incorrect. Then I could see this being a factor, but that thing would have to be pretty low, and that spring would have to flex a long way, and I do not see how that would be possible with a stock shackle.
Anyway, my pitman arm is straight like a newer Super Duty. I run 6" springs (also SD) from an early kit, and i am about to change it to a new 6" BDS spring with 11 leafs like I just installed in my 74.
Anyway, the spring would have to bend backwards to allow the axle to raise to the point of hitting the pitman arm. The spring can't flatten out that far. If you are running a stock shackle, yours can't either. The spring eye will hit the frame before this was ever allowed to happen. The stock shackle is very short and actually is a very limiting factor in suspension travel. It is simply not able to allow a spring to flex that far. A stock neg arch spring is the only one that I know of that would have this clearence problem. That is unless the pitman arm is incorrect. Then I could see this being a factor, but that thing would have to be pretty low, and that spring would have to flex a long way, and I do not see how that would be possible with a stock shackle.
Freshman User
Joined: Nov 2006
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I agree this was probably a very rare instance, because it was a very large bump.
Yes the shackle is stock.
With my Skyjacker lift at rest the shackle is swung roughly an inch forward which would allow more up travel and less down travel.
I quickly measured my 04 SD and my 79 and even though they are built different they both appear to have 1" of drop.
I don't disagree with your shackle travel and neg arch etc., but I'm pretty sure there was "paint transfer."
I think I am going to drive out real quickly and see how much twist I can get with as much weight on the front and take some measurements.
Yes the shackle is stock.
With my Skyjacker lift at rest the shackle is swung roughly an inch forward which would allow more up travel and less down travel.
I quickly measured my 04 SD and my 79 and even though they are built different they both appear to have 1" of drop.
I don't disagree with your shackle travel and neg arch etc., but I'm pretty sure there was "paint transfer."
I think I am going to drive out real quickly and see how much twist I can get with as much weight on the front and take some measurements.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,948
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Cool; i have a pitman arm on the bench that I am using in the 74. I just installed the springs last week, and I got the box in today. I will be doing a x-over in this one also.
If you want me to send you a pic, Pm me and we can swap some info, and give this thread back LOL!
I even think I will even send some pics of the steering in the 75 if you would like to see. I can go as far as cycling the suspension with my forklift and shoot some pics while it is flexed so you can see. If you are hiting the sring on the pitman arm, something should be done to fix that.
If you want me to send you a pic, Pm me and we can swap some info, and give this thread back LOL!
I even think I will even send some pics of the steering in the 75 if you would like to see. I can go as far as cycling the suspension with my forklift and shoot some pics while it is flexed so you can see. If you are hiting the sring on the pitman arm, something should be done to fix that.
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