Ford, Chevy or Toyota
#16
05-23-2007, 08:58 PM
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Your right my mistake. The old big 3 mantality! Ford and GM. And I'm out.
How does it effect me? I live in Michigan. The US auto industry is primarily centered in the midwest. If GM or Ford go out of business the nation itself is in trouble,especially the midwest. Many people drive these foreign autos without thinking of any type of ramifications, for example: many not all professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.) drive foreign autos. Ford and GM's benefits (salary/hourly) are keeping many of these people in business. People stop using these professionals and wella they're not bring in the coin they once were. Ford and Gm go out of business what happens to all these other manufacturers, suppliers, and venders, of parts tooling etc. They're done.
I will say if I did work for any foreign auto maker or supplier common sense would tell you don't bite the hand that feeds you. And I'll never talk bad about anyone supporting their job. I've said what I have to say. I hope this wasn't too political. To each his own.
How does it effect me? I live in Michigan. The US auto industry is primarily centered in the midwest. If GM or Ford go out of business the nation itself is in trouble,especially the midwest. Many people drive these foreign autos without thinking of any type of ramifications, for example: many not all professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.) drive foreign autos. Ford and GM's benefits (salary/hourly) are keeping many of these people in business. People stop using these professionals and wella they're not bring in the coin they once were. Ford and Gm go out of business what happens to all these other manufacturers, suppliers, and venders, of parts tooling etc. They're done.
I will say if I did work for any foreign auto maker or supplier common sense would tell you don't bite the hand that feeds you. And I'll never talk bad about anyone supporting their job. I've said what I have to say. I hope this wasn't too political. To each his own.
Last edited by wiingnut; 05-23-2007 at 09:11 PM.
#17
05-23-2007, 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by wiingnut
Not considering the profits go to a Japanese company. Ford, GM and Chrysler have more plants in the US than the foreign automakers.
Quote: BMW, Honda, Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Subaru, and Toyota all build vehicles in the US. Combined, they produce more than a third as many vehicles in the US, as do the Big Three. Unquote.
#18
05-23-2007, 10:25 PM
A smattering of history of foreign car sales in America
Foreign cars from Europe have been sold in the US since 1903. Before WWII, most were luxury vehicles, so only a few hundred were sold yearly. In 1948, the British began importing sports cars from Jaguar, Austin-Healey, MG, Triumph and others. By the mid 1950's, there were over 100 different European cars sold in the US. The VW Beatle outsold nearly all the others combined. Most of the French and Italian cars were crappola, as were a few of the German and British cars. So, they didn't survive longer than a few years. In 1956, the first Japanese car arrived...Toyota imported their Toyopet sedan. The car was an underpowered terd and by 1958, Toyota left the US market. In the early 1960's the Toyota was back, joining Datsun, which first arrived in 1959. The Datsun mini truck had became an overnight success, mainly because no one else offered one.
Japanese car sales were slow, because the American public wasn't ready for econoboxes, but that all changed during the first gas crunch of 1974. Sales of Toyota, Honda and Datsun (Nissan) took off. Here again the Big Three didn't have anything to counter them with. The problems with exploding gas tanks on Pintos and the teflon coated cylinder walls of the Chevy Vega doomed the sales of both cars by 1976.
Meanwhile ppl that had bought Japanese cars were impressed by their quality and ease of maintance. Before long, the US Gov't put restrictions on how many could be imported. To get around the laws, the Japanese began building assembly plants in America. Why did the Big Three, the UAW, and the US Gov't allow the Japanese to begin building cars here without union shops? Without the UAW, this gives the "new" American cars of foreign ancestry a $1500.00 saving on any vehicle they sell. So is who to blame? Why the Big Three, the UAW and the US Gov't are! Why? Because no one figured back then that the Japanese vehicles would ever make a go of it here, and now it's too late.
Foreign cars from Europe have been sold in the US since 1903. Before WWII, most were luxury vehicles, so only a few hundred were sold yearly. In 1948, the British began importing sports cars from Jaguar, Austin-Healey, MG, Triumph and others. By the mid 1950's, there were over 100 different European cars sold in the US. The VW Beatle outsold nearly all the others combined. Most of the French and Italian cars were crappola, as were a few of the German and British cars. So, they didn't survive longer than a few years. In 1956, the first Japanese car arrived...Toyota imported their Toyopet sedan. The car was an underpowered terd and by 1958, Toyota left the US market. In the early 1960's the Toyota was back, joining Datsun, which first arrived in 1959. The Datsun mini truck had became an overnight success, mainly because no one else offered one.
Japanese car sales were slow, because the American public wasn't ready for econoboxes, but that all changed during the first gas crunch of 1974. Sales of Toyota, Honda and Datsun (Nissan) took off. Here again the Big Three didn't have anything to counter them with. The problems with exploding gas tanks on Pintos and the teflon coated cylinder walls of the Chevy Vega doomed the sales of both cars by 1976.
Meanwhile ppl that had bought Japanese cars were impressed by their quality and ease of maintance. Before long, the US Gov't put restrictions on how many could be imported. To get around the laws, the Japanese began building assembly plants in America. Why did the Big Three, the UAW, and the US Gov't allow the Japanese to begin building cars here without union shops? Without the UAW, this gives the "new" American cars of foreign ancestry a $1500.00 saving on any vehicle they sell. So is who to blame? Why the Big Three, the UAW and the US Gov't are! Why? Because no one figured back then that the Japanese vehicles would ever make a go of it here, and now it's too late.
Last edited by NumberDummy; 05-23-2007 at 10:31 PM.
#19
05-23-2007, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wiingnut
Your right my mistake. The old big 3 mantality! Ford and GM. And I'm out.
How does it effect me? I live in Michigan. The US auto industry is primarily centered in the midwest. If GM or Ford go out of business the nation itself is in trouble,especially the midwest. Many people drive these foreign autos without thinking of any type of ramifications, for example: many not all professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.) drive foreign autos. Ford and GM's benefits (salary/hourly) are keeping many of these people in business. People stop using these professionals and wella they're not bring in the coin they once were. Ford and Gm go out of business what happens to all these other manufacturers, suppliers, and venders, of parts tooling etc. They're done.
I will say if I did work for any foreign auto maker or supplier common sense would tell you don't bite the hand that feeds you. And I'll never talk bad about anyone supporting their job. I've said what I have to say. I hope this wasn't too political. To each his own.
How does it effect me? I live in Michigan. The US auto industry is primarily centered in the midwest. If GM or Ford go out of business the nation itself is in trouble,especially the midwest. Many people drive these foreign autos without thinking of any type of ramifications, for example: many not all professionals (doctors, lawyers, etc.) drive foreign autos. Ford and GM's benefits (salary/hourly) are keeping many of these people in business. People stop using these professionals and wella they're not bring in the coin they once were. Ford and Gm go out of business what happens to all these other manufacturers, suppliers, and venders, of parts tooling etc. They're done.
I will say if I did work for any foreign auto maker or supplier common sense would tell you don't bite the hand that feeds you. And I'll never talk bad about anyone supporting their job. I've said what I have to say. I hope this wasn't too political. To each his own.
Thank you for your tone....you are one of the very few that have answered that question civily.
Here's my view; while at the moment Ford/GM may employ more than all the foreign makers (I don't know this to be true but I'll state it for the benefit of the doubt) they continue to take the "profits" to outsource assembly; to open factories in waaay foreign lands (forget Mexico, I'm talkin' China and India) and to pay CEO's 25 million.
While all that is happening, I see the "foreign" makes not only moving assembly here but also moving design and engineering studios here.
I feel for any American first and foremost when concerned about their livelyhood....but I see a lot of those jobs maybe being absorbed by the companies that are actually INCREASING their workforce here.
NumberDummy has quoted many a "foreign" automakers' cars and their N.American content many times exceeds the "American" cars content.
So while I care very little where the profits go, I do care what the company does with those profits.....and what I'm seeing is the Domestics biting the hands that made them and the foreign automakers creating jobs.
Last edited by DOHCmarauder; 05-23-2007 at 11:19 PM.
#20
05-23-2007, 11:11 PM
OK I am gonna flamed hard for this but why dont you consider a 3/4 Dodge? I mean they pull as good as they get (I own an '07 Ford so I can say this without hesitation), Get as good as mileage as any you have listed (if not better) and proabably will be cheaper than the Ford and The Chevy. It might not have the exceptional comfort of the Chevy or Ford But they damn sure get the job done. I havent much experience with the GM or the Toy but I do know the Ford wont touch the Dodge in the pulling department.
#21
05-23-2007, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BigDaddy6969
OK I am gonna flamed hard for this but why dont you consider a 3/4 Dodge? I mean they pull as good as they get (I own an '07 Ford so I can say this without hesitation), Get as good as mileage as any you have listed (if not better) and proabably will be cheaper than the Ford and The Chevy. It might not have the exceptional comfort of the Chevy or Ford But they damn sure get the job done. I havent much experience with the GM or the Toy but I do know the Ford wont touch the Dodge in the pulling department.
If the local commericials are any indication, they are literally giving away Dodges!!!
#22
05-24-2007, 07:17 AM
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I want to thank everybody for their opinion. Test drove both the Chevy and Ford last evening - again. Both very nice trucks. Right now I'm leaning slightly torwards the Chevy just for relibilty sake and Fords issues with Navistar. At this point I'm completely disregarding the Tundra or any gasser for that matter. Did some more digging and although I don't tow as much as I used to 7-9mpg pulling is significant compared to 13-14.
Still haven't made up my mind - just ahve it narrowed down to 2.
Still haven't made up my mind - just ahve it narrowed down to 2.
#23
05-24-2007, 08:45 AM
Originally Posted by DOHCmarauder
Thank you for your tone....you are one of the very few that have answered that question civily.
Here's my view; while at the moment Ford/GM may employ more than all the foreign makers (I don't know this to be true but I'll state it for the benefit of the doubt) they continue to take the "profits" to outsource assembly; to open factories in waaay foreign lands (forget Mexico, I'm talkin' China and India) and to pay CEO's 25 million.
While all that is happening, I see the "foreign" makes not only moving assembly here but also moving design and engineering studios here.
I feel for any American first and foremost when concerned about their livelyhood....but I see a lot of those jobs maybe being absorbed by the companies that are actually INCREASING their workforce here.
NumberDummy has quoted many a "foreign" automakers' cars and their N.American content many times exceeds the "American" cars content.
So while I care very little where the profits go, I do care what the company does with those profits.....and what I'm seeing is the Domestics biting the hands that made them and the foreign automakers creating jobs.
Here's my view; while at the moment Ford/GM may employ more than all the foreign makers (I don't know this to be true but I'll state it for the benefit of the doubt) they continue to take the "profits" to outsource assembly; to open factories in waaay foreign lands (forget Mexico, I'm talkin' China and India) and to pay CEO's 25 million.
While all that is happening, I see the "foreign" makes not only moving assembly here but also moving design and engineering studios here.
I feel for any American first and foremost when concerned about their livelyhood....but I see a lot of those jobs maybe being absorbed by the companies that are actually INCREASING their workforce here.
NumberDummy has quoted many a "foreign" automakers' cars and their N.American content many times exceeds the "American" cars content.
So while I care very little where the profits go, I do care what the company does with those profits.....and what I'm seeing is the Domestics biting the hands that made them and the foreign automakers creating jobs.
You should copy and paste this post because it sums everything up in a nutshell when it comes down to the "buy American" debate.
#24
05-24-2007, 08:54 AM
Originally Posted by DMAX-HD
I want to thank everybody for their opinion. Test drove both the Chevy and Ford last evening - again. Both very nice trucks. Right now I'm leaning slightly torwards the Chevy just for relibilty sake and Fords issues with Navistar. At this point I'm completely disregarding the Tundra or any gasser for that matter. Did some more digging and although I don't tow as much as I used to 7-9mpg pulling is significant compared to 13-14.
Still haven't made up my mind - just ahve it narrowed down to 2.
Still haven't made up my mind - just ahve it narrowed down to 2.
The only downfall to the Dodge trucks ( HD ) I have heard is fit/finish quality. To each their own, personally the Dodge trucks are the best looking trucks out there right now.
Good luck and keep us informed on your purchase.
#25
05-25-2007, 09:39 PM
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Signed the papers tonight. Another Chebby. 2500HD, LT, 3/4 ton, D/A, Crew cab, new body style. Wasn't cheap $48,625. Local dealer had an 'event' for the holiday - 7k off plus an additional 2k from my GM card and 20,500 for my 03. The rest I was ablr to do at 0% for 3 years.
My biggest concern is regen. I'll keep you guys posted. Not sure I like the looks yet either.
Dodged a bullet there - almost had to change my posting name!!!!
My biggest concern is regen. I'll keep you guys posted. Not sure I like the looks yet either.
Dodged a bullet there - almost had to change my posting name!!!!
#27
05-26-2007, 12:10 AM
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nice choice on the dura... proven performance. i wonder how the new models rate (haven't driven them yet). for ford, the new supers have me on looks alone i might add.
as for dodge? toy? good call eliminating that idea imo. i'm not going to get in on this fiasco, so don't even quote anything i say. i'd be curious to see some pics, but i'm sure that would almost certainly call for a
lol... anyways, congrats on the new truck and thanks for being civil on a ford forum!
as for dodge? toy? good call eliminating that idea imo. i'm not going to get in on this fiasco, so don't even quote anything i say. i'd be curious to see some pics, but i'm sure that would almost certainly call for a
lol... anyways, congrats on the new truck and thanks for being civil on a ford forum!
#29
05-26-2007, 09:02 AM
Originally Posted by DMAX-HD
Signed the papers tonight. Another Chebby. 2500HD, LT, 3/4 ton, D/A, Crew cab, new body style.
Dodged a bullet there - almost had to change my posting name!!!!
Dodged a bullet there - almost had to change my posting name!!!!
FWIW I was planning to recommend the pre-emissions 06/07 older body style DMax or an 07 6.0 PSD. A good friend just bought a GMC 5500 with a pre-emissions DMax. Great rig (medium duty) to tow his boat and work in the landscape business. I'm just not a fan of the first generation emissions/regen diesels... Only time will tell which of the three (GM, Ford, Dodge) strategies will prevail
Last edited by utahtom; 05-26-2007 at 09:08 AM.
#30
05-29-2007, 11:32 AM
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[QUOTE=DMAX-HD]Signed the papers tonight. Another Chebby. 2500HD, LT, 3/4 ton, D/A, Crew cab, new body style. Wasn't cheap $48,625. Local dealer had an 'event' for the holiday - 7k off plus an additional 2k from my GM card and 20,500 for my 03. The rest I was ablr to do at 0% for 3 years.
see and all the people who had an issue with the tundras 48k sticker price, they aint the only one.
see and all the people who had an issue with the tundras 48k sticker price, they aint the only one.