6.4 12 million miles of testing !
#31
03-29-2007, 11:50 PM
monster, your posts really get me to thinking, a guy i know is really into dodges, he's telling me that the 6.7 with the dpf has been out since late last year in the cab and chassis trucks, spoutin off on how they have had 0 problems, which i found extremely hard to believe seeing as how like you said the manufacturers of the product itself still haven't even fully figured it out, i'm lookin for some solid stats to shut this guys mouth with haha
#32
03-30-2007, 12:09 AM
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6.4 engine production stopped
hi,
at the dealership i work at we recieved a fax letter from fomoco informing us that international has stopped production of the 6.4 diesel until further notice. no reason stated. so far the problems we have encounter have been cracked injection castings with fuel leakage into the engine oil. you may not want to get too excited about the 08 250/550 with the 6.4 yet. AND no salesperson will sell a vehicle close to zero profit margin and keep their job. it's a good sales pitch. fellow racer or not. trust no salesperson. they are going to make a healthy profit. before purchasing a vehicle talk to the partsperson that orders parts for the vehicles that are breaking down and the techs that work on them. they will be honest and upfront and steer you in the right direction and away from the wrong decision. there are also three invoices for a vehicle. one on the window, the one the salesperson shows you (so called factory invoice) to make you believe you are getting a vehicle at next to nothing and the original invoice that the dealer pays ford motor company from. that one you will NEVER see. i dont mean to sound sarcastic but just stating a few true facts some people arent aware of yet.
later,
michael
at the dealership i work at we recieved a fax letter from fomoco informing us that international has stopped production of the 6.4 diesel until further notice. no reason stated. so far the problems we have encounter have been cracked injection castings with fuel leakage into the engine oil. you may not want to get too excited about the 08 250/550 with the 6.4 yet. AND no salesperson will sell a vehicle close to zero profit margin and keep their job. it's a good sales pitch. fellow racer or not. trust no salesperson. they are going to make a healthy profit. before purchasing a vehicle talk to the partsperson that orders parts for the vehicles that are breaking down and the techs that work on them. they will be honest and upfront and steer you in the right direction and away from the wrong decision. there are also three invoices for a vehicle. one on the window, the one the salesperson shows you (so called factory invoice) to make you believe you are getting a vehicle at next to nothing and the original invoice that the dealer pays ford motor company from. that one you will NEVER see. i dont mean to sound sarcastic but just stating a few true facts some people arent aware of yet.
later,
michael
Originally Posted by Specracerford
I have a 6.4 on order and been wondering if I've made a mistake or not with all the negative threads. I spoke to the dealer I ordered through and he informed me that he's on the steering commitee for the 6.4 and that the motor has been tested for 12 million road and dyno miles. I have confidence in him because he's a fellow racer and he priced the truck at what must be a next to zero profit margin. Hope this puts some new 6.4 owners minds at rest.
#33
03-30-2007, 12:59 AM
#34
03-30-2007, 02:43 AM
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#35
03-30-2007, 09:51 AM
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
my point with the class 8 trucks is less than 6 months ago they were still having troubles making these filters and emissions equipment work at all, and live at all, the systems were being revised on almost a daily basis trying to get teh systems to live long enough to even get them to the dealers, remember class 8 trucks are not hauled to a dealer they are driven (at least one is with a couple piggy backed) so issues were coming up before the trucks even made it to the dealers lots. So if the manufacturer of the filters, and the companies were still having trouble less than 6 months ago and were still trying to design and program the system to work with any reliability how then did Ford manage to get 12 million miles of trouble free testing done and know this system is going to work? Did the company say that working them hard was the only way to make the system live? No, thats why I said it was my opinion, I just read through what was published by Ford on this issue about the testing done (I am only mentioning Ford on this because frankly it's the only one of the light duty diesel trucks I care about) And all the testing done that I could see was working the day lights out of them, which is all well and good but it's not real world testing for a majority of the trucks that will be sold to the general public.
Let me put this in another light for you. Yes I am saying the filter and other emissions equipment is going to be the major cause of a lot of the reliability problems with this motor, I think that the motor itself if put together as a non emissions engine would probably not have any problems, it's not just the filter but rather the whole emissions equipment package, take the high preasure pump, this was built to power the new style injectors used so the engine could work with the emissions equipment requirements,and this has been the subject of several of the problems that have occured already, thus not the engine that is the problem but the equipment added to it to make it meet EPA requirements. But to continue with why I think it's the problems, the 6.0 got a bad reputation early on, yet the VT366 that international used in their trucks was pretty reliable, same base engine yet one was giving fits one wasn't why is that? Did IH change the base engine they sold to ford? No ford changed the external items like the programing for the fuel system, upping the power output. I think the 6.4 is a similar issue the base engine is most likely a solid, strong engine that will be a good deal, but the emissions equipment is new and frankly not as tested as they would like you to believe (read the first section of this post as to why I say that) and it's going to have issues that will cause reliability problems and make the engine look bad and in turn will make Ford look bad as well as everyone else.
Let me put this in another light for you. Yes I am saying the filter and other emissions equipment is going to be the major cause of a lot of the reliability problems with this motor, I think that the motor itself if put together as a non emissions engine would probably not have any problems, it's not just the filter but rather the whole emissions equipment package, take the high preasure pump, this was built to power the new style injectors used so the engine could work with the emissions equipment requirements,and this has been the subject of several of the problems that have occured already, thus not the engine that is the problem but the equipment added to it to make it meet EPA requirements. But to continue with why I think it's the problems, the 6.0 got a bad reputation early on, yet the VT366 that international used in their trucks was pretty reliable, same base engine yet one was giving fits one wasn't why is that? Did IH change the base engine they sold to ford? No ford changed the external items like the programing for the fuel system, upping the power output. I think the 6.4 is a similar issue the base engine is most likely a solid, strong engine that will be a good deal, but the emissions equipment is new and frankly not as tested as they would like you to believe (read the first section of this post as to why I say that) and it's going to have issues that will cause reliability problems and make the engine look bad and in turn will make Ford look bad as well as everyone else.
Another question back to the topic of this thread, do you think that Ford did all that testing without the DPF? Do you think they did not do all that testing? Or do you think they did the testing with the DPF but fudged or hid the problems they encountered?
#36
03-30-2007, 10:09 AM
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#37
03-30-2007, 04:54 PM
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invoices
Originally Posted by jarepackard
I have a hard time believing this.. If it was indeed true it would have came out from someone earlier in the day and would be all over. Have you seen this so-called fax?
they come in everyday from fomoco. car prices, invoices, shop bills and parts dept bills. and extra costs to the dealership from ford to be able to keep the big blue oval out front. extra cost just to sell a 07 shelby gt500. cost us over $3000.00 just to be able to sell one shelby. all that we were allowed to get from ford on allocation; but they did allow us to pay it in quarterly payments. wasnt that nice of them!
that's how i knew how much over cost i was to pay for my new pickup when i bought it last year. the finance manager showed me the invoice. employees come under something called a 'd' plan. depending upon the vehicle you purchase there is anywhere from 100 to 600 over cost that you pay less rebates which can when added allowed me to purchase a new 1997 thunderbird this way in 1998. it cost approx 2100 under the price we paid for the vehicle. that included a 1000 employee discount and ford motor co d plan for the employees at ford lincoln mercury dealerships.
so; it's not a so-called invoice, just a very well kept secret from buyers. besides why does a customer need to know how much something costs anyway. you dont ask how much something costs at a retail store or jewelery store or gas station where they have a huge markup. (if there wasnt money to be made in an item then no one would be selling it.) in the area of 4-5 hundred percent or whatever the market will allow and the supply and demand.
ford gives nothing to the dealers. everything we get from them whether we order it from them or they feel we need it they send it and bill us.
just attempting to be helpful and dispell the rumor about the dealer invoice.
hope this was of some help. i've owned my own business before and the markup is there. has to be to help pay for the overhead.
michael
#38
03-30-2007, 06:31 PM
#39
03-30-2007, 06:45 PM
No doubt on the invoice and I certainly would agree with you. I was referring to Navistar ceasing production of the 6.4 again which you also stated... Being a dealership or Ford employee definetely has it's advantages on pricing.
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by jarepackard
I have a hard time believing this.. If it was indeed true it would have came out from someone earlier in the day and would be all over. Have you seen this so-called fax?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by jarepackard
I have a hard time believing this.. If it was indeed true it would have came out from someone earlier in the day and would be all over. Have you seen this so-called fax?
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
#40
03-30-2007, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by jvoigt
Just remember that they probly tested that motor on LSD for a while until ULSD came out. So yeah I bet they tested the motor without the emissions equipment on it.
#41
03-30-2007, 10:15 PM
Texasccl--- I have access to everything you have access to (if you really work at a dealership). I looked all over the pts website--daily ssms issued--new tsbs---any broadcast messages--- there just isn't any mention of a production stoppage (since the legal warranty squabbles). The only thing that disgusts me more than a traitor against my country, is someone that spreads false information just to stir up something! In my time here, all of my posts have been the most accurate information I could give, I pride myself on being able to help someone that needs help. A dealership employee? I really doubt its a Ford dealership.
#42
03-31-2007, 10:49 AM
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I was just speculating 
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