Local guy busted for making bio diesel
#61
04-10-2007, 09:00 AM
Posting Guru
here is my big hang up on it being untaxed fuel... it's taxed more than fuel think about it.....
first lets say we are talking sun flower oil (could use corn or what ever)
1) land... taxedevery year
2) seed/fertilzer... taxed agian
3) machinery .... taxed every year
4) part to fix machine ..... taxed every year
5) farm help .... taxed again (farmer has to pay taxes on him)
6) farm helps check... taxed again(decuted from check)
7) fuel to plant and pick crops (sometimes taxed )
8) buying the oil to cook..... taxed again
9) having it hauled off taxed again
the government make so much off one little thing it's not funny one day it will be like that one movie with swatchenager where they taxed the air on mars so you could breath!!!
first lets say we are talking sun flower oil (could use corn or what ever)
1) land... taxedevery year
2) seed/fertilzer... taxed agian
3) machinery .... taxed every year
4) part to fix machine ..... taxed every year
5) farm help .... taxed again (farmer has to pay taxes on him)
6) farm helps check... taxed again(decuted from check)
7) fuel to plant and pick crops (sometimes taxed )
8) buying the oil to cook..... taxed again
9) having it hauled off taxed again
the government make so much off one little thing it's not funny one day it will be like that one movie with swatchenager where they taxed the air on mars so you could breath!!!
#62
04-10-2007, 07:35 PM
[QUOTE=bassproguy07]you say you can't store more than ten gallons of fuel without a permit in a residential area? What about my 30 gallon tank in my truck? What if I park my truck inside the garage thats storing more than ten gallons isnt it? these "unwritten" laws are the ones that are completely rediculous, and until I see anything in writing (for my state/county/city) i'll go ahead and do what I want.
Well, with regards to your fuel tank, the size/capacity is actually regulated by the federal government also- and just as an example, the regs specifically state, "the tank must be enclosed on 3 sides and not accessible by persons during loading or offloading activities". While these regulations do not prohit you from parking inside your home, if you were parking your vehicle inside a "business occupancy", you could (if the jurisdiction chose to enforce) then by federal regulation,national fire code and environmental laws be required to file a hazardous materials business inventory form, placard the vehicle with NFPA 704m ID, provide secondary containment system, etc, etc, etc.
And with regards to "unwritten", sorry, but if you will check with your local jurisdiction, look in Uniform Fire Code Article 79 (storage, use & dispensing of flammale/combustible liquids) and article 80 (storage, use and dispensing of hazardous materials) which is adopted by all states or the national fire code which is the standards by which the fire code is developed.
If you happen to be in the future market for a hydrogen fueled vehicle, you may eb right that the govenment will not allow you to park it in the garage. You see, the potential for leaks and the gas contacting say a light switch that you just turned on or off, will provide adequate spark for a flash fire or explosion, therfor, the new codes coming this year require monitored flammable gas detctors in all enclosed parking spaces (including residential) for these new hydrogen fueld vehicles.
Welcome to the land of the free- it includes the rural part of the county as well.
I appologize in advance for my smart remarks but it was said with a smile and no disrespect intended!
While I agree that some of the laws can go a tad far, they have been written by people (actually in the state of Texas) and forcing policiticans to do what they do best- react to public pressure. There is an old saying in the business community, you can do anything that you want until you hurt enough people, then the govenment will step in and tell how, what, when, and where you will operate.
Well, with regards to your fuel tank, the size/capacity is actually regulated by the federal government also- and just as an example, the regs specifically state, "the tank must be enclosed on 3 sides and not accessible by persons during loading or offloading activities". While these regulations do not prohit you from parking inside your home, if you were parking your vehicle inside a "business occupancy", you could (if the jurisdiction chose to enforce) then by federal regulation,national fire code and environmental laws be required to file a hazardous materials business inventory form, placard the vehicle with NFPA 704m ID, provide secondary containment system, etc, etc, etc.
And with regards to "unwritten", sorry, but if you will check with your local jurisdiction, look in Uniform Fire Code Article 79 (storage, use & dispensing of flammale/combustible liquids) and article 80 (storage, use and dispensing of hazardous materials) which is adopted by all states or the national fire code which is the standards by which the fire code is developed.
If you happen to be in the future market for a hydrogen fueled vehicle, you may eb right that the govenment will not allow you to park it in the garage. You see, the potential for leaks and the gas contacting say a light switch that you just turned on or off, will provide adequate spark for a flash fire or explosion, therfor, the new codes coming this year require monitored flammable gas detctors in all enclosed parking spaces (including residential) for these new hydrogen fueld vehicles.
Welcome to the land of the free- it includes the rural part of the county as well.
I appologize in advance for my smart remarks but it was said with a smile and no disrespect intended!
While I agree that some of the laws can go a tad far, they have been written by people (actually in the state of Texas) and forcing policiticans to do what they do best- react to public pressure. There is an old saying in the business community, you can do anything that you want until you hurt enough people, then the govenment will step in and tell how, what, when, and where you will operate.
#63
04-10-2007, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Dave Sponaugle
But as said previously, the highway use tax is what makes it illegal to run on the highway.
Unless you have zoning restrictions on the amount of chemicals or fuel you can have at your location making biodiesel is not against the law.
But running fuel that has not had highway use tax paid on it on the highway is against the law at both state and federal levels.
There is no exemption for running untaxed fuel on the highway unless you are a government agency.
Sales tax paid on the chemicals is not highway use tax, it's sales tax.
Sales tax does not fix the roads, it goes toward all the other things the state does for you.
Highway use tax fixes the roads and builds new ones.
All states spend more money on the roads than they take in on highway use tax.
Pump fuel has federal highway use tax, state highway use tax and state sales tax figured in the price per gallon amount.
I just saw a new tax sticker on a fuel pump two days ago, the total tax on a gallon of fuel in WV is 55.3 cents per gallon. I don't remember the federal and state breakdown on who gets what out of the 55.3 cents.
I was just watching a story about the construction of the new Woodrow Wilson bridge south of DC this week.
The total cost was to be 2.3 billion dollars for that one bridge alone.
So if the Virginia highway use tax is 50 cents per gallon, they have to use all the state and federal tax per gallon of fuel on 4.6 billion gallons of fuel to pay for that one bridge.
I have also seen figures on maintaining a mile of interstate highway for a year.
That includes buying and maintaining the equipment, buying and maintaining plces to store and maintain the equipment, putting fuel in the equipment, paying the salaries, buying the materials for grass cutting, patching the holes, repairing the guardrails, plowing the snow, salting the ice, replacing the signs, repainting the lines, bridge inspections, providing police protection and anything else I have left out.
In WV that number is 1.4 million dollars a year for every mile of interstate we have just to maintain what we already have.
Want to build new or bigger roads, that number goes up to about 3 times what it costs to maintain it.
I am a retired over the road truck driver, every state in this country has roads that need repairs or replaced.
Bridges everywhere need repairs and/or replacement.
The cost to do this is increasing every day.
This is just something to think about the next time you hit a pothole or drive across a bridge.
Unless you have zoning restrictions on the amount of chemicals or fuel you can have at your location making biodiesel is not against the law.
But running fuel that has not had highway use tax paid on it on the highway is against the law at both state and federal levels.
There is no exemption for running untaxed fuel on the highway unless you are a government agency.
Sales tax paid on the chemicals is not highway use tax, it's sales tax.
Sales tax does not fix the roads, it goes toward all the other things the state does for you.
Highway use tax fixes the roads and builds new ones.
All states spend more money on the roads than they take in on highway use tax.
Pump fuel has federal highway use tax, state highway use tax and state sales tax figured in the price per gallon amount.
I just saw a new tax sticker on a fuel pump two days ago, the total tax on a gallon of fuel in WV is 55.3 cents per gallon. I don't remember the federal and state breakdown on who gets what out of the 55.3 cents.
I was just watching a story about the construction of the new Woodrow Wilson bridge south of DC this week.
The total cost was to be 2.3 billion dollars for that one bridge alone.
So if the Virginia highway use tax is 50 cents per gallon, they have to use all the state and federal tax per gallon of fuel on 4.6 billion gallons of fuel to pay for that one bridge.
I have also seen figures on maintaining a mile of interstate highway for a year.
That includes buying and maintaining the equipment, buying and maintaining plces to store and maintain the equipment, putting fuel in the equipment, paying the salaries, buying the materials for grass cutting, patching the holes, repairing the guardrails, plowing the snow, salting the ice, replacing the signs, repainting the lines, bridge inspections, providing police protection and anything else I have left out.
In WV that number is 1.4 million dollars a year for every mile of interstate we have just to maintain what we already have.
Want to build new or bigger roads, that number goes up to about 3 times what it costs to maintain it.
I am a retired over the road truck driver, every state in this country has roads that need repairs or replaced.
Bridges everywhere need repairs and/or replacement.
The cost to do this is increasing every day.
This is just something to think about the next time you hit a pothole or drive across a bridge.
yes, but i also worked on the road maintanance side also. it is full of waste. i worked in kansas, we actually had to purchase a new heavy truck for salting each year just even if we didn't need it just to spend the allotted money so we can get the same amount or more next year.
they also introduced a whole new round of water tappers regulations just to spend more on trucks and equipment, though that was not needed also.
i personnaly repaved a road twice and i can't even say how many ditches i redone just to do it. there was a new requirement almost every month it seems.
where i live now, they are always repaving roads, whether they need it or not, or they are repainting lines whether it needs it or not.
oh sure, they are not perfect, but i imagine you wouldn't get your whole truck painted just because a few scratches on it, the dot would though.
new signs? throguh virginia and other places they have a stupipd raod marker every tenth of a mile, as if its so darn important to waste money on that.
of course the bridges cost a lot, instead of being just a bridge, they want to make some grand architectual statement out of it, thus jacking the price up for it.
the raod departments have so much money, they have to invent work just to get rid of it, i feel no sorrow for them.
ok, off topic, sorry!
#64
04-13-2007, 08:06 PM
If you stop and look at the bigger picture, how many new jobs do each of the new regulations employ?
Government waste creates jobs.
Government regulations create jobs.
The bottom line is it is all about creating new jobs so everyone can have one.
More jobs mean more taxes for the government to waste creating even more jobs.
It is only going to get worse as long as the population continues to grow because we need more jobs for them to work at doing something.
I am glad I am getting old.
Government waste creates jobs.
Government regulations create jobs.
The bottom line is it is all about creating new jobs so everyone can have one.
More jobs mean more taxes for the government to waste creating even more jobs.
It is only going to get worse as long as the population continues to grow because we need more jobs for them to work at doing something.
I am glad I am getting old.
#65
04-15-2007, 10:21 PM
#66
04-16-2007, 12:22 AM
Sorry, I'm going to ignore a lot of discussion here and just post.
I'll probably get flamed for it too. but oh well.
Makeing bio diesel is not illegal.
Running it on the road without paying taxes is not illegal.
They can't charge you taxes on a good you are not selling!
If they are to charge you taxes to run bio in your truck, then that only means you do not own your vehicle. End of story.
You only pay taxes on things you DO NOT OWN.
Oh sorry, you pay taxes on what? oh ya, your home, property, vehicle, and many other things.
Damn...
Look into alodial title's for property, and look into manfacturers certificates of oragin.
excuse my spelling please.
A certificate of title is NOT a title, its something in place of it. The SOS shreds the actuall title (MCO) and mirofishes it.
But excludeing all that.
They still cannot tax you for something you are not selling, wether your running it on the highways (which you pay for) or not.
End of story. Its just that simple.
I'll tell you how they confonsacated everything too.
Its called the patriot act.
Its a violation of your rights. It allows them to take whatever they want, without your permission, and they can ignore your rights all together.
If this guy was really busted for bio, then he was selling it.
I'll probably get flamed for it too. but oh well.
Makeing bio diesel is not illegal.
Running it on the road without paying taxes is not illegal.
They can't charge you taxes on a good you are not selling!
If they are to charge you taxes to run bio in your truck, then that only means you do not own your vehicle. End of story.
You only pay taxes on things you DO NOT OWN.
Oh sorry, you pay taxes on what? oh ya, your home, property, vehicle, and many other things.
Damn...
Look into alodial title's for property, and look into manfacturers certificates of oragin.
excuse my spelling please.
A certificate of title is NOT a title, its something in place of it. The SOS shreds the actuall title (MCO) and mirofishes it.
But excludeing all that.
They still cannot tax you for something you are not selling, wether your running it on the highways (which you pay for) or not.
End of story. Its just that simple.
I'll tell you how they confonsacated everything too.
Its called the patriot act.
Its a violation of your rights. It allows them to take whatever they want, without your permission, and they can ignore your rights all together.
If this guy was really busted for bio, then he was selling it.
#67
04-17-2007, 10:38 PM
Originally Posted by Talyn
Sorry, I'm going to ignore a lot of discussion here and just post.
I'll probably get flamed for it too. but oh well.
Makeing bio diesel is not illegal.
Running it on the road without paying taxes is not illegal.
They can't charge you taxes on a good you are not selling!
If they are to charge you taxes to run bio in your truck, then that only means you do not own your vehicle. End of story.
You only pay taxes on things you DO NOT OWN.
Oh sorry, you pay taxes on what? oh ya, your home, property, vehicle, and many other things.
Damn...
Look into alodial title's for property, and look into manfacturers certificates of oragin.
excuse my spelling please.
A certificate of title is NOT a title, its something in place of it. The SOS shreds the actuall title (MCO) and mirofishes it.
But excludeing all that.
They still cannot tax you for something you are not selling, wether your running it on the highways (which you pay for) or not.
End of story. Its just that simple.
I'll tell you how they confonsacated everything too.
Its called the patriot act.
Its a violation of your rights. It allows them to take whatever they want, without your permission, and they can ignore your rights all together.
If this guy was really busted for bio, then he was selling it.
I'll probably get flamed for it too. but oh well.
Makeing bio diesel is not illegal.
Running it on the road without paying taxes is not illegal.
They can't charge you taxes on a good you are not selling!
If they are to charge you taxes to run bio in your truck, then that only means you do not own your vehicle. End of story.
You only pay taxes on things you DO NOT OWN.
Oh sorry, you pay taxes on what? oh ya, your home, property, vehicle, and many other things.
Damn...
Look into alodial title's for property, and look into manfacturers certificates of oragin.
excuse my spelling please.
A certificate of title is NOT a title, its something in place of it. The SOS shreds the actuall title (MCO) and mirofishes it.
But excludeing all that.
They still cannot tax you for something you are not selling, wether your running it on the highways (which you pay for) or not.
End of story. Its just that simple.
I'll tell you how they confonsacated everything too.
Its called the patriot act.
Its a violation of your rights. It allows them to take whatever they want, without your permission, and they can ignore your rights all together.
If this guy was really busted for bio, then he was selling it.
1 misdemeanor for each storage container
1 misdemeanor for each processing system
If an injury occurs to anyone as a result of the storage or use, the minimum fine is $250,000 and 6 months in the county jail, up to one year in the state penn
the cost of container & product removal (called environmental waste clean-up) BTW the definition of a waste product is "any substance which posses a potential threat to the environment"
fines of 3 times the cost of the clean-up
I will not debate this issue with you or anyone else, aside from my state prevention officer certifications and my national instructor credentials for teaching & certifying fire inspectors in this particular aspect of code enforcement, i served for several years on a regional hazardous materials criminal enforcement task force headed by the District Attorney. Anyone who has any idea of making their own bio-fuel must be aware that you and your familywill loose everything you cherish. The way the laws are written, even if the local, regional, and state do not investigate and prosecute, the feds may...if they do not, any person may sue and win against any enforcement official if they have been formally made aware of the hazard and chose not to take any action, their government immunity is waved. Also think about how you would be required to dispose of the equipment once used, only a hazardous waste disposal site could legally accept it.
Everything I have stated can be verified by any state of nationally certified fire prevention officer or fire inspector certified at a level II or higher.
#68
04-18-2007, 09:12 AM
Oh uniform commercial code.
I got ya.
Unforunatly the highest law in the land is common law, and common law is above that.
however, cause we've all been screweed for the UCC, and we dont own the property we are produceing the bio on. thats how they can eforce the laws you speak of.
I tottaly agree with you that it is the way that is written.
But if its my land, they cannot do a thing. The unforuante part is, the only place you can own land is in texas.
As i stated before, if you pay taxes on it you do not own it, and i'm sure all of us pay property tax. Thus we dont own the land, we only own the house that sets on the land. That is why the government can claim eminate domain for silly reasons on property, because we are merly renting the land, we are co owners with the state.
Do some research if you dont belive this. You will be amazed at what you find. =)
The other thing is with what your saying, you have to usually have a certian ammount to be considered a risk.
If your running a full scale operation thats produceing mass ammounts, they are going to come bust you no matter what. Its just the way it is. If your produceing just enough for you and some extra, your are classified in a different catagory for risk.
I had to deal with all of this on the farm I managed. We only kept 100 gallons of #1 diesel at a time, so we were a low classification due to no fertalizers and other risks.
I'm not argueing this, or debateing it.
I have no raeson to debate the issue myself.
I think there are just a few things you missed "classification" wise.
I got ya.
Unforunatly the highest law in the land is common law, and common law is above that.
however, cause we've all been screweed for the UCC, and we dont own the property we are produceing the bio on. thats how they can eforce the laws you speak of.
I tottaly agree with you that it is the way that is written.
But if its my land, they cannot do a thing. The unforuante part is, the only place you can own land is in texas.
As i stated before, if you pay taxes on it you do not own it, and i'm sure all of us pay property tax. Thus we dont own the land, we only own the house that sets on the land. That is why the government can claim eminate domain for silly reasons on property, because we are merly renting the land, we are co owners with the state.
Do some research if you dont belive this. You will be amazed at what you find. =)
The other thing is with what your saying, you have to usually have a certian ammount to be considered a risk.
If your running a full scale operation thats produceing mass ammounts, they are going to come bust you no matter what. Its just the way it is. If your produceing just enough for you and some extra, your are classified in a different catagory for risk.
I had to deal with all of this on the farm I managed. We only kept 100 gallons of #1 diesel at a time, so we were a low classification due to no fertalizers and other risks.
I'm not argueing this, or debateing it.
I have no raeson to debate the issue myself.
I think there are just a few things you missed "classification" wise.
#69
04-18-2007, 10:39 AM
actually beechkid, I hate to say this but in dealing with biodiesel you are wrong. If your certified as much as you say you should know this, I made the same mistake about 6 months ago, and was corrected so now i will do the same for you.
Biodiesel is not a hazardous material, it's non toxic, non reactive, and is not classified as a flammable liquid, does not need to be placarded while being transported and in fact you don't even have to have a hazmat endorsement to transport it so that code does not apply to biodiesel production.
Biodiesel is not a hazardous material, it's non toxic, non reactive, and is not classified as a flammable liquid, does not need to be placarded while being transported and in fact you don't even have to have a hazmat endorsement to transport it so that code does not apply to biodiesel production.
#72
04-18-2007, 06:30 PM
Found the MSDS for B100. read under transport and under regulatory for everyones questions and answers.
www.mnsoy.com/documents/Biodiesel_MSDS.pdf
Monsterbaby- --- - - You are correct by the MSDS
www.mnsoy.com/documents/Biodiesel_MSDS.pdf Monsterbaby- --- - - You are correct by the MSDS
Last edited by bigredtruckmi; 04-18-2007 at 06:35 PM.
#73
04-19-2007, 12:33 AM
#74
04-22-2007, 12:13 PM
Originally Posted by monsterbaby
actually beechkid, I hate to say this but in dealing with biodiesel you are wrong. If your certified as much as you say you should know this, I made the same mistake about 6 months ago, and was corrected so now i will do the same for you.
Biodiesel is not a hazardous material, it's non toxic, non reactive, and is not classified as a flammable liquid, does not need to be placarded while being transported and in fact you don't even have to have a hazmat endorsement to transport it so that code does not apply to biodiesel production.
Biodiesel is not a hazardous material, it's non toxic, non reactive, and is not classified as a flammable liquid, does not need to be placarded while being transported and in fact you don't even have to have a hazmat endorsement to transport it so that code does not apply to biodiesel production.
The product is classisifed as a Class III combustible liquid, illegally released with potential for environmental contamination- a hazardous materials incident was declared, the City brought in an EPA certified environmental clean-up contrcator, and KFC paid for the entire clean-up, "emergency response" (1 code enforcement officer and fire engine), plus an administrative fee of 10% and fines by the Los Angeles County Health Department Hazardous Waste Divison which under California state law may be 3 times the cost of the clean up. Please call the Culver Cuty Fire department business number who will confirm all I have advised you.