alcohol carb??
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More Turbo
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: in the woods of Maine!
alcohol carb??
Hey guys, just wondering what I would have to do to run alcohol, or a strong alcohol mix through one of my Holley 4BBl's? I hear alky, and alluminum don't mix, but what's alluminum on carbs, other than the throttle plate?, Or is it the rubber in the accl. pump? If the rubber is affected, what about the material all the gaskets are made of?
Also, things like what about a fuel pump for the good ol' FE?, and it can't hurt the pistons.....could it?
Also, things like what about a fuel pump for the good ol' FE?, and it can't hurt the pistons.....could it?
Last edited by LedheadELH; Mar 8, 2007 at 12:06 PM.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Union, Washington
Usually the amount of alcohol need to run and engine compared to fas is like 2 to 4 times as much. I know some 2 stroke guys who run alcohol and the just remove the jets all together to get enough fuel. You also have to boost time to like 50° as alcohol burns real slow. Oh yeah the outboard carbs are cast aluminum and they have no problems. Where did you see a carb with aluminum throttle plates? And all new carb parts are alcohol resistant.
FE "Freakin Expensive"
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Smith Mountain Lake, VA
Well Bears right on the mixture..you have to run alot richer mixture in an alky motor..But with that said you also need to crank up the CR to get it to burn right...Alky doesnt eat aluminum..if the bowls are kept full..if the go dry from sitting the will get chalky...So if you decided to run an alky mix..make sure to drain your float bowls before you put the vehicle to bed!! and your also going to run a hotter plug...
On the Altered..years ago I dove into the Alky faze for a bit...Methenal...Because I was tired of running A/EA Altered class..and for all the BS I went threw with a new Injection set-up pilling and metering..cleaning and drying after putting the car to bed at night..I said to hell with it..and went back to 100LL..and carbs... JMO
RJ
On the Altered..years ago I dove into the Alky faze for a bit...Methenal...Because I was tired of running A/EA Altered class..and for all the BS I went threw with a new Injection set-up pilling and metering..cleaning and drying after putting the car to bed at night..I said to hell with it..and went back to 100LL..and carbs... JMO
RJ
FE "Freakin Expensive"
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Smith Mountain Lake, VA
Originally Posted by Redmanbob
Moonshine 
Gas is for washing part!! Alcohol is for drinking! and Nitro is for Racing!!
And Moonshine does all three!!!!!!!!!
RJ
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From: in the woods of Maine!
well I know you have to run about twice as rish on the mixture. the throttle plate, like the big flat hunk of alluminum that the actual butterflies are in. So the carb is pretty much all alluminum?, seems like it must be an alloy, it's really heavy.
BTW, I'm pretty much building the entire vehicle from scratch, except the body....I want to set it up to run either alky or gas. more of a toy really, so the daily driver thing is outa the picture. I'm trying to set the motor up on the ragged edge of pump gas. So It'll probly get more of a mix of gas and alky. Some day I might tear the motor out, and bump the compression up, and run pure alcohol tho.
Oh, and tell me more about this hotter plug thing, I haven't heard about that yet?
BTW, I'm pretty much building the entire vehicle from scratch, except the body....I want to set it up to run either alky or gas. more of a toy really, so the daily driver thing is outa the picture. I'm trying to set the motor up on the ragged edge of pump gas. So It'll probly get more of a mix of gas and alky. Some day I might tear the motor out, and bump the compression up, and run pure alcohol tho.
Oh, and tell me more about this hotter plug thing, I haven't heard about that yet?
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Post Fiend
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From: Iowa
Typically with E85 you'll want to run about a 25-30% richer mixture. Pure ethanol is more than that at about 35-40%. Methanol it's up towards 50%.
But that's for stoichiometric. Alcohols have a much wider range of combustability. Stoichiometric for E85 is about 10:1. However, I've read where the most power is made down around 7:1, which would mean about twice as much fuel as gasoline at stoichiometric.
But that's for stoichiometric. Alcohols have a much wider range of combustability. Stoichiometric for E85 is about 10:1. However, I've read where the most power is made down around 7:1, which would mean about twice as much fuel as gasoline at stoichiometric.
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From: Gadsden Purchase
The heavier dark grey colored carbs are zinc and the lighter weight silver-white colored carbs like the 2100s, 2150s and Edelbrocks (I've seen) are aluminum.
I look in the "zinc pile" at the scrap yard for aluminum 2100 carbs. :)
They just throw all the carbs there anyway for some strange reason.
Didn't know alcohol reacted with aluminum or zinc... maybe it's the water in the alcohol causing touble? 100% pure alcohol will quickly be watered down by 4% water if left open to the air.
Alvin in AZ
I look in the "zinc pile" at the scrap yard for aluminum 2100 carbs. :)
They just throw all the carbs there anyway for some strange reason.
Didn't know alcohol reacted with aluminum or zinc... maybe it's the water in the alcohol causing touble? 100% pure alcohol will quickly be watered down by 4% water if left open to the air.
Alvin in AZ
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From: in the woods of Maine!
yea, see I didn't think these holley 650's, and 750's were alluminum......the majority of them are WAY too heavy. Like I said, I think the only alluminum part is the base plate I guess you'd call it where the butterflies are......so that Zinc is compatible w/ alky?
Cargo Master
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From: SW Michigan
Alky carb
Led, which alcohol are you looking to run ? Methanol is quite abit more corrosive than ethanol. Russ is correct about all of the washing stuff if you use methanol. But Bear is wrong on flame speed, 'burns real slow', and wrong on the mixture. Gasoline flame speed is .34 mps, ethanol's .43 mps. Alot of where your mixture needs to be will depend on are you trying to make lots of power, or are you just looking to switch to an alternative fuel. DinosaurFan, on work's old cast off 'puter
Post Fiend
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From: Union, Washington
Originally Posted by Dino@his Dad's
Led, which alcohol are you looking to run ? Methanol is quite abit more corrosive than ethanol. Russ is correct about all of the washing stuff if you use methanol. But Bear is wrong on flame speed, 'burns real slow', and wrong on the mixture. Gasoline flame speed is .34 mps, ethanol's .43 mps. Alot of where your mixture needs to be will depend on are you trying to make lots of power, or are you just looking to switch to an alternative fuel. DinosaurFan, on work's old cast off 'puter
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From: in the woods of Maine!
I didn't know Methanol was more corrosive, and I'm not not looking to make more power than if I were on gas, but more to avoid detonation. and partly because I'm all about making my own alcohol..lol
But, I would like to run E85 preferably
But, I would like to run E85 preferably
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Pittsburgh
E85 takes a 42% larger jet than gasoline for the same application.
Also, alcohol based fuels DO have higher flame proagation velocities than gasoline. As said before gasoline is .34 MPS, ethanol is .43, and methanol is .45. These are peak numbers, they vary by the fuel-air equivalence ratio.
You can run more timing on alcohol fuels just because of the increased octance rating and the "low" compression ratio that these motors tend to be run at. Motors exclusively running E-85 should be around 12:1, possibly even more depending on cam selection and such while motors running pure alcohol can run up into the 18 and 19:1 range.
When running a proper compression ratio you can't run double the advance, you actually should run less advance.
Justin
Also, alcohol based fuels DO have higher flame proagation velocities than gasoline. As said before gasoline is .34 MPS, ethanol is .43, and methanol is .45. These are peak numbers, they vary by the fuel-air equivalence ratio.
You can run more timing on alcohol fuels just because of the increased octance rating and the "low" compression ratio that these motors tend to be run at. Motors exclusively running E-85 should be around 12:1, possibly even more depending on cam selection and such while motors running pure alcohol can run up into the 18 and 19:1 range.
When running a proper compression ratio you can't run double the advance, you actually should run less advance.
Justin
Last edited by hoxiii; Mar 14, 2007 at 10:34 AM.
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From: Union, Washington
Originally Posted by hoxiii
E85 takes a 42% larger jet than gasoline for the same application.
Also, alcohol based fuels DO have higher flame proagation velocities than gasoline. As said before gasoline is .34 MPS, ethanol is .43, and methanol is .45. These are peak numbers, they vary by the fuel-air equivalence ratio.
You can run more timing on alcohol fuels just because of the increased octance rating and the "low" compression ratio that these motors tend to be run at. Motors exclusively running E-85 should be around 12:1, possibly even more depending on cam selection and such while motors running pure alcohol can run up into the 18 and 19:1 range.
When running a proper compression ratio you can't run double the advance, you actually should run less advance.
Justin
Also, alcohol based fuels DO have higher flame proagation velocities than gasoline. As said before gasoline is .34 MPS, ethanol is .43, and methanol is .45. These are peak numbers, they vary by the fuel-air equivalence ratio.
You can run more timing on alcohol fuels just because of the increased octance rating and the "low" compression ratio that these motors tend to be run at. Motors exclusively running E-85 should be around 12:1, possibly even more depending on cam selection and such while motors running pure alcohol can run up into the 18 and 19:1 range.
When running a proper compression ratio you can't run double the advance, you actually should run less advance.
Justin