Soilman... I needed that laugh!! Thanks.

I have to admit, though, I really don't want to prove anything as much as I want to understand what I'm doing and the implications it has on my truck... then just share my experience in case it can help someone else. Being an engineer, I can someimes overdo it a bit, though. Oh well, it just makes my fun that much more expensive, but I appreciate your kind of "down to earth" practicality all the same... sort of helps me keep from getting overly focused sometimes.

 

Thanks for keeping everyone updated with the UOA's, Pete!

Hey Soilman, glad you decided to join us in the Oil and Lubrication forum!

 

Wow... 52 pages on Amsoil....

AND I STILL WOULDN'T RUN IT IN MY TRUCK OR MY LAWNMOWER!!!!

 

YUP...still perkin...

 

Here is a question to ponder about Amsoil.....

To date, there is only one CJ4 diesel rated 100% synthetic oil available... and that is AMSOIL. I am curious why the major oil companies and other oil brands (blenders and marketers) do not yet have one?

Could it be due to....

1) Amsoil makes a claim of being CJ4 complient but does not pay for API certs?

2) Maybe the oil companies and other brands are having trouble formulating a CJ4 spec'd oil that meets ALL API requirements and industry standards... therefore they have not yet launched?

3) Maybe Amsoil is "hiding" something or their oil is not truly API complient and their oil only meets SOME and not ALL CJ4 spec's?

4) CITGO claims to have a CJ4 synthetic oil, but they have not yet received API certification on it and none of their distributors carry it (but it is on their website). Other than that, Shell, Mobil, Chevron and all other major brands and even all "designer" brands do NOT yet have a 100% synthetic CJ4 API certified oil.

Conclusion... makes me wonder what Amsoil knows that 99.9% of everyone else can't figure out.... or maybe Amsoil is up to their "shaddy marketing practices" and they just make the claim of being CJ4 complient and never tested it against the Mack, Catapillar, Detroit Diesel, and Int'l specs.. plus the many more that must be met!!!!!

The old saying... "if it is too good to be true... it probably is not true!!!" Meaning... Amsoil is not smarter than 99.9% of every other oil company out there... and they only buy their base stock and add-packs from other people or have it blended for them... so why aren't there more CJ4 synthetic oils out there with the API starburst... becuase a consistent, complient formulation has yet to be formulated, tested and found to be API complient!!!!

Shame on AMSOIL for their continued shady marketing.

 

I would guess that the big oil companies don't see the pay out in developing it. Considering the the large market they serve and the proportionaly small segment of industry that requires a 100% synthetic CJ4 lubricant at this time.

On the other hand, that same small portion of the market falls in Amsoil's niche. They don't rely on the mainstream industry to support their product line.

 

However, here are a few other points to consider....

1) Mainstream oil companies sell CI4+, so why not convert over to CJ4 and appeal to every diesel owner out there... right now they have "nothing" to sell to the 2008 and newer truck market?

2) What about all those that NEED 5W-40 weight oils for winter driving and starting (US and Canada)?

3) Rotella-Syn 5W-40 is a big seller for Shell and with distribution at Walmart is the largest seller of synthetic diesel rated oil.... so from a marketing and financial standpoint... the market IS there... just not the approved formulation to meet the strigent API certification process!!!

4) If Chevron, Mobil, Shell, Citgo and others can afford to have a CI4+ synthetic... they can afford to market a CJ4 version to replace it and appeal to 100 of all diesel owners and not just the 2007 and older crowd.

I question if Amsoil's CJ4 synthetic oil really meets the API spec's for all the major diesel industry performance tests since it would appear that the majors and even other boutique brands have yet to luanch their versions... and we must ask ourselves why????

 

How long has the CJ4 spec been around, and how long does the API certification testing take to obtain approval? I do not know anything about the testing process, but I assume it is very time consuming, and this may be the reason for so few oils being API CJ4 certified.

 

I have everyones answer, but will keep it to myself for now. Til I let out the secret, just read Scots last post.
Bloomy good to see you again. Any more Blackstone reports? PM me I might have some info you might find intersting.

 

OK... I will "bite"!!!

What is the secret about 100% synthetic CJ4 oils?

Who is Scott and which post is his you are referring too?

 

Horsepuller, as in his last post. They have already thinned out the TBN from 12 to 8-9 in the CJ4 rated oils. My guess is OTR market is vastly larger than ours. 12 TBN will go the distance as foar as Extending OICs, CJ4 will not. Many labs are now publishing letters requesting customers to re-evaluate their OA's if they have swapped over to CJ4 rated oil as it is quite different from that of CI4+. I think I caught a wiff of this when all this Particulate green peace mamby pamby crap came out. I know now I was right, someone did hit a skunk.

 

Correct...

The TBN's have been reduced and the oil companies cautioned people to monitor their oil analysis if extending it and whether they were using LSD or ULSD fuels?

For example....

The new CJ4 oil is looking for reduced sulfur content and has a lower TBN... but if a user is or was still using Lsd (500 ppm), then the oil could get "loaded up" with excess soot and sulfur faster than planned. However, if using ULSd diesel, then the new CJ4 oil was OK as the reduced sulfur content made for less "stuff" to get "loaded" into the oil.

Again... we are back too... with ULSD readily available for on-road use and more and more 2008 model year trucks being sold (the 6.4L PSD for example), what are these users to do when they need the benefits of a 100% synthetic oil for easier cold weather starting???

Shell sells enough Rotella-Syn at Walmart every year to just upgrade their formulation and start selling a CJ4 spec'd oil (as they and many others did with their convential formulations).

I am sticking to my original therory and hypothesis above that Amsoil's oil does not meet ALL industry requirements for CJ4 due to the rest of the industry not yet releasing it for some reason... it is this "some reason" I would like to know about???

 

Jeff, Scott (Horsepuller already told you) Money, all the majors are not interested in this yet as it doesn't fit their forcast models. Not to say that they are not planning on releasing it yet, or that it is not currently being tested. Amsoil as well as Torco, Bel-Ray and the rest of the botique market are beating them to the punch because of the cult following most have.


I guess I will spell it out for you. At $11.96 a gallon for CI-4 5W40 rotella I was a loyalist, when it jumped to $13.96 a gallon, I hung on a while longer. When it went to $16 and change I went back to 15W40 Motorcraft for half the price including one more qt. (5 qts instead of 4) Shell as well as the rest know this. CJ4 syn it likely to be priced in the $20 a gallon range, and you will not get any better service out of it than the conventional version due to the lower TBN. So why rush it till the demand becomes high enough to price it at $20 per gallon?

 

Ryan I think your on to something here. Racing motorcycles I have seen alot of Amsoil,Torco and Bel-Ray oils at the track and people will spend the extra money for a full syn oil for the protection of racing . Spending that kind of money on racing when you find an oil that works they will stick with that brand for ever.

Why guys want a full syn oil and change it at 3-5k is beyond me. I can't see spending that kind of money and change it at manufactures intervals. I believe the oil companys know this as well.

 

Wow you guys oil change intervals are really far apart. I use M1 and still change it every 3k miles.