Hi All,

The input bearing on my M5OD is making a racket. I'm going to pull the trans next week for inspection. Is there a rebuild manual out there for this tranny? The synchros feel fine and I'd rather save my pennies at this point (it's only got 80k on it anyway) so I'm looking to only replace the worn bearing (and aything else that's suspect). Does anyone know if the bearing can be removed from the front of the trans w/o disassembly? seems unlikely but thought I'd ask anyway.

Thanks,

Rob

BTW, 97 F150 with the 4.2L V6 and M5OD, 2WD, 80k miles.

 

You're sure it's the input bearing that's making noise?
Unfortunately the input shaft is almost the last thing to come out of the transmission when you disassemble it. You have to remove pretty much everything except the counter shaft to get the input shaft out.
You're also probably going to need some special tools to do the job. I imagine that people have done without but I really think it would be hard.
Not trying to discourage you, and I don't know what sort of mechanical experience you have, but this may be a job best left to someone with the equipment to do it.
I'm not sure if the the Chiltons or Haynes manuals go into much detail on these or not. Anyone have one of those and can take a look?
The genuine Ford manual has all the info you'll need. You can buy one from www.helminc.com if you're rich or maybe try to find someone that has one for sale.

 

thanks for the info.

I'm pretty mechanically inclined - I have two jeeps and a scout so I'm pretty much forced to be This truck is a new acquisition, just got it on Friday when I posted, but it seems familiar enough to wrench on. I haven't ever rebuilt a manual transmission but I have rebuilt three transfercases over the last couple of years and plenty of other things. I'm usually willing to learn to do things myself, I've had plenty of work done by 'professionals' in the past and ended up redoing it to my own satisfaction so I tend to just pay for my own mistakes nowadays

I'll have to scrounge around on ebay for the genuine Ford manual but I suspect I'm not the first person to want one....what are these specialty tools I may need? I've got the usual tool compliment including snap ring pliers, seal pullers, a slide hammer, etc.

BTW, I successfully pulled the transmission over the weekend. It's now sitting on the work bench and my suspicions of the input bearing are confirmed as far as I'm concerned - I have a clear wobble on the input shaft. In case you're wondering how I came to the conclusion driving it, here's what it was doing:
1 - made a racket, proportional to engine RPM, when driving it and it would generally get worse after about 10 minutes.
2 - the noise would persist when the clutch was depressed to shift gears
3 - the only time it would be quiet was at a complete stop, clutch pedal depressed and IN GEAR.
I mulled it over for an evening and decided it was only quiet when the input to the transmission was at a complete stop, so I suspected the input bearings.

I'm hoping to get some time to crack open the transmisison later this week, but so far, definitely have some wobble in the input, the front input seal is leaking, the slave cylinder MAY be leaking, clutch looks a little worn and the fluid was torched (probably a while since the PO changed it).

I'll also mention that the Haynes manual isn't a whole lot of help, but it's always good for a little reasurrance here and there. I was glad to have it when I pulled the trans since I was having my doubts about how to remove the clutch hydraulic line, but seeing the pics in the manual convinced me to push a little harder on the soft plastic fitting.....

Sorry for the long post, but to sumarize, here are my questions:
1 - what are the special tools that may be required?
2 - do you agree that the input bearing seems the likely culprit?
3 - I'm going to try to do this on the cheap for once (instead of my usual 'replace anything that looks at me funny' approach to repairs), what's a good way to evaluate the wear on a clutch?

Thanks for the help!

Rob

 

It does sound like you're on the right track.
Typically an input bearing will make noise in all gears but 4th, or at least be quieter in 4th. In 4th the power is transferred straight through the transmission with little load on the input bearing.
The wobble of the input shaft could also mean that the pocket bearing, where the input and mainshaft go together, is shot. Check it carefully.
Special tools that are required, or at least used in the dealership, are a big (36mm I think) socket with a long tube that fits over the output shaft to remove the rear bearing locknut (you may be able to use a big wrench instead), and a long tube 2 jaw puller to remove the rear main bearing. Other than that I can't think of what else is needed..... I haven't had one of these apart in quite a while.
Check for any hot spots on the pressure plate and flywheel. On the clutch disc there should be some of the grooves in the lining left. When the disc is worn the grooves wear away. Hard to explain. If it worked ok and didn't slip or anything and it looks ok, it's probably safe to reuse but since you're in there, if there's any doubt, I would replace it.
I'd also replace the pilot bearing and check the release bearing to make sure it turns smoothly. If there's any sign of the clutch slave cylinder leaking it should be replaced too.

 

thanks for the reply.

I didn't think to compare 4th gear to 1-3, something to remember for next time I guess. Good point on the pocket bearing, I'm assuming that's a pressed in roller type bearing?

On the special tools, I think I'm set then since I have a two jaw puller (and a three jaw puller) for the slide hammer and I have a 36mm impact wrench and extension. It happens to be the size of the nuts on the front axle shafts of my wife's Grand Cherokee (they have unit bearing hubs, so there's a nut that's used for bearing pretention).

I was hoping to leave the clutch be, but I think I follow what you're saying so I'll pull it off the flywheel and get an alignment gizmo to put it back on after inspection (if it doesn't ger replaced). It shifted fine but I noticed wear on the fingers looking at it from the back side. I couldn't make up my mind on the slave cylinder, basically it's covered in a light oil coating from the input seal leaking, but when I was removing the master cylinder hydraulic line I noticed that the little metal line extension that protrudes from the slave cylinder had some play in it and there was a little bit of fluid living between the main housing and that metal tube (if any of that made sense).

My first impression on this was to just fix the input bearings and seal and call it good. If I have to pull the transmission again in 6-12 months for a clutch so be it, but now I'm thinking a new clutch (along with the throwout bearing and slave cylinder) may not be a bad investment....

Getting a little OT here but you may know something about this: When researching the truck, I noticed it's poor towing capacity rating compared to the automatic and there seemed to be some references on the forum that this may not relate to any weakness within the transmission, but actually the clutch. If I do replace the clutch, is there an alternative to a stock replacement from NAPA I need to consider? I haven't priced out a centerforce clutch yet, I'm scared

 

update: just did a quick search for the centerforce clutch prices vs stock replacements. NAPA is showing a stock replacement for $339.00 on their website (I'd probably get it for around $305 at the local one) while a Centerforce DF983982 is $385 from Summit and the CF983982 is $329. Doesn't look like they come with the bearings, so add another $40 or so for bearings and the slave cylinder seems to be around $70...............

Comparable prices though, and supposedly the CF line is about 30% stronger than stock and the DF at around 90%....Guess I need to search the forum for other owners experiences since they're in the ball park on price.....

 

While you have it apart replace the clutch slave cylinder. They fail on a regular basis and to replace it you'll have to pull the tranny again. I "lost" 3 on my 1989 F-150 within 70,000 miles. My 2002 F-150 had one explode last fall with only 30,000 mainly highway miles on it. It soaked the clutch plate also. Dealer wanted around $1800 to repair it . The dealer was decent and got Ford to pay for it with only a $100 deductible. And no I don't have the ESP plan.

Whimsey

 

thanks for the info. A quick search on the forum shows you're not the only person with repeated slave clyinder failures. I'll definitely replace that slave cylinder.

 

Thought I'd post a conclusion to this thread:

I have the truck working again! I rebuilt the transmission last week and reinstalled everything. The defective bearing was actually the front countershaft bearing. The inside race had significant damage, but luckily everything else looked okay. I used a basic rebuild kit to replace all bearings and seals (though i ended up having to get a 2nd output seal from NAPA since it looked like the one in the kit would have been for 4x4 applications).

I replaced the slave cylinder and throwout bearing but decided to save the clutch after inspection. It really had a lot of life left in it.

So all in all, I'm under $400 for the fix! Hopefully she'll stay in good running order for a while.

Thanks for the help,

Rob

 

Oh, one more thing worth mentioning: I picked up a cheap Ford Service Manual CD off ebay (think it was about ~$5 shipped) and that had all the info I needed to tear everything apart and put it back together with no spare bolts If you're going to do this sort of work, it's definitely recommended you get something like that, but the CD is far less convenient than a book - I kept my laptop in the cab with it loaded while I worked....

 

Good to hear you got it fixed