I have a 93 F-250 IDI 7.3 diesel that I have installed a Banks Sidewinder in(Turbo, larger exhaust,K&N Filter). I have also taken the air intake where it sits above the radiator with a rectangle scoop and moved it down to one of the radiator brackets.(I cut a rectangular hole in the radiator bracket) I also fabricated a small scoop in the grille to catch the air and "ram" it into the rectangular intake. I tow a 27.5 ft 5th wheel trailer with it. I am not happy with the power I am getting. Banks tells me I am wasting my time putting in an intercooler. Should I try to get more air in the engine or what? It has a E40D tranny. It runs real good, just doesn't have the power I think it should. Also, I run in summer like weather all the time so I am running straight 30Wt oil but I swear the mileage dropped off when I converted from 15/40

 

From what you have done, there is not much more you can do for more power....only thing that I could think of that I didn't read was turn up your IP and or install propane injection. Any other mods, I belive require a engine rebuild, IE Dave S's IDI...these IDI's are not known for power but for simplicity & longevity...again unless you rebuild it. lol

 

Did you make a new air intake or just move the stock one?
Do you have a pyrometer and boost gauge?
If you do, what numbers are you seeing?
Do you have any black smoke out the exhaust?
Are you running a muffler?
Can I assume you have at least a 3" exhaust all the way back?

 

Tom D

In addition to Dave’s questions - How many miles are on the IP and when was the last time you had the IP timing checked? Are the injectors in good shape? When I initially checked my IP timing it was retarded 16 degrees from where it is now set. The timing really makes a difference in power. But if your IP is worn out, like mine is, the factory timing probably will not work and might even cause you to loose more low end power. If you know someone with a diesel-timing meter set the IP at the factory recommended offset and rpm, then check the engine at different rpm’s. What I found was the timing was much further advanced at lower rpm’s causing a lack of power at the low end (very heavy black smoke and slow acceleration) so I adjusted the IP to keep it close to the maximum factory advanced recommended offset but at 850 rpm. With mine set like this, and when idling, it smokes a lot less when cold, and does not smoke at all when at running temperature, also seems to have better power. Just take note that this is just a band-aid for a bad pump, a new pump would probably be even better power and mileage wise…

Also out of curiosity - If you have a pyrometer make note of the temperature reading under load before and after IP timing adjustments. I don’t have a turbo myself but it is my understanding that the temperature in the exhaust manifold could actually be higher when the timing is to far retarded due to the exhaust burning in the manifold?

93

 

When I installed my Banks Sidewinder turbo, they instructed me to "turn up" my IP 1/2 turn. They then instructed me to run it down the road and record pyro and boost which was within their parameters. I did all this 4 years ago so I don't remember initial readings.

 

Dave,thanks for reply. I have 31/2" exhaust all the way with a new muffler supplied by Banks. It is supposed to be minimum back pressure. The turbo is waste gated supplied by Banks. The boost maxes at 10PSI which they tell me not to exceed which will cause engine damage. They also told me not to exceed 1050 deg.F. If I am pulling a load hard,I have had the boost and pyro temp both at max but find if I let off on the fuel just a little my pyro temp drops and I haven't lost any speed. Nice way to keep me in check. I took the stock intake (2x5)rectangle that transitions to a 4" round pipe and mounted it next to the radiator(I cut a hole in the radiator bracket)The stock pipe wasn't long enough to rehook to K&N filter inlet so I cut a 4" corrugated plastic storm drain pipe 12" to connect the two (I suspect changing that to a smooth interior pipe may improve things. What do you think.) No smoke at any speed. I suspect the IP is original. I have never had timing checked cause I don't know any reputable diesel mech. Also don't know if I should pull my injectors and check or have rebuilt. As I have said, the engine runs VERY good and starts excellent. I do notice I have smoke entering the turbo from the crankcase vent pipe. I run 2 qts of Lucas in my crankcase and run Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant in the fuel. I have 162K miles on it.Maybe I need to leave this thing alone.

 

OK, the 3.5" exhaust is good, muffler I am not sure about.
As far as boost, 10 PSI is safe and could probably be increased a 2 or 3 pounds on a 7.3 with the stock head bolts without any problems.
Is your thermocouple pre or post turbo? I think Banks mounts the thermocouple after the turbo if I remember right.
Your 2" x 5" intake has 10 sq. in. of area, the 4" round part is 12.5 sq. in. so the pipe can carry more air than the intake will let in.
No smoke at any speed tells me you need more fuel, but your MPG will take a hit and you will be able to reach higher EGT's easier.
I suspect you may need to have your IP checked out, and possibly the injectors.
The vapors from the CDR is normal.

What is possible?
I made a intake for mine 4"x10" that transitions to 3"x9" through the radiator shell then to 6" round then reduces to 4" round to enter the ATS air box.
When I rebuilt my 6.9 engine, I bored it 30 over so I am now running a 7 liter engine.(You can not do that on a 7.3 liter engine though, the cylinder walls are already to thin)
I had the pistons milled down to lower the compression.
I also used head studs which are much stronger than head bolts.
I used the rockers off a 7.3 because they are stronger.
I am running a 94 turbo IP and injectors, fuel is maxed out on the IP and I still need more.
My max EGT is 900 degrees with the thermocouple in the exhaust manifold.
I have header wrap on the crossover and turbo up pipe to keep as much heat as possible in the exhaust for higher boost.
I am running an ATS turbo that is putting out 20+ PSI boost.
I have a 3" downpipe, no muffler, and 3 feet more of single 3" pipe till it splits to dual 3" stacks.
Even at 20 PSI of boost I still have a very light black smoke at wide open throttle, you can barely see it though.
At lower RPM's and boost levels I can make Macks jealous of the smoke.

Does it run? Yes it does.
Does it pull? My driveshaft and U joints don't last very long.
Did it cost much? I have 4500 dollars in parts and machine work, I did all the labor myself.
Is it fun to drive? If you come to WV and see a black 86 with a guy that looks like this behind the wheel it is probably me.

 

My thermocouple is after the turbo. I don't quite understand wrapping the pipe. Don't you want to get rid of the heat AFTER it leaves the turbo? Do you wrap the pipe after the turbo and how far down the header pipe? Would that help me in my situation? I've thought of putting an air scoop in the hood and running larger pipe or maybe dual pipes from it to the air filter. Would I gain anything by removing muffler and running dual exhaust from the header out? I think enlarging intake as you have done and using a smooth pipe to the filter may help. What about fabricating an intercooler? Worth the trouble?I live in Central East Coast Florida. Have you had any dealings wiyh anyone in this area that is good with diesels? I don't want someone messing with my truck that isn't good at what he does. Maybe someone else reading this will let me know. Thanks for the help Dave.

 

hey Dave what kind of ATS turbo are you running? the bnewer wastegated or the older non wastegated turbo? also how did you get the turbo to spin that many rpm's to make that ammount of boost?
thanks,
Jimmy

 

Tom D,

I hate a thermocouple after the turbo, you have to calculate the heat lost at the turbo which is 200 to 300 degrees. What the pyrometer is supposed to protect is the pistons, they will be the first thing to melt in your engine.
So 1050 + 200 = 1250 which is where hypereutectic pistons are about to start melting.
But if you are loosing 300 degrees in the turbo 1050+300=1350 which is 100 degrees to hot. Granted the oil jets help to cool the pistons and delay the melting, but that is also putting a very large amount of heat in your oil.

As far as the wrap on my exhaust, you want to keep as much heat as possible in the exhaust from the time it leaves the cylinder till it reaches the turbo. That keeps the exhaust gasses expanded so more volume goes through the turbo which makes more boost possible.

In that picture you can see the wrap on the turbo up pipe.
You can also see the silver ceramic paint I used on the exhaust manifold and soaked the wrap with to keep the heat in the up pipe.
What is not installed yet is the crossover pipe which is also wrapped and soaked with ceramic paint so I have no heat loss there either. I can touch my exhaust with a bare hand when the pyrometer is showing over 500 degrees and it is barely warm.
I also wrapped the first couple of feet of the downpipe.
That was not for performance but to keep the heat out of my cab.
Noticeable difference this summer.

Ram air can make a difference in turbo response, but on the hood is not a good choice for a location. Air flow over the hood is rather strange for one reason, you living in Florida is another reason. Those torrential downpours that you have in the summer would probably flood your air filter with water. If the water entered the combustion chamber in enough volume, you could kiss the engine good bye. Water does not compress and you could break the crankshaft, pistons or connecting rods.

Since you have no visable black smoke under any conditions I think you have enough air for the amount of fuel your IP is delivering, but more air can also help lower the EGT you are seeing on your pyrometer.
I would also guess the wastegate on the turbo is what is keeping your boost at 10 PSI currently.
I am well versed in ATS turbo's but a little behind the curve on Banks units.
Let me ask a friend of mine about adjusting a Banks wastegate and about the Banks muffler.

 

1978FordF250,
I ran through everything in the previous post that I did to reach the boost levels I am seeing.
If you attemp to run boost that high without doing everything I did you will blow the heads off the engine. The stock compression ratio is to high to run boost like that.
Ask me what head gaskets look like only running 15 PSI of boost with the stock compression ratio and stock head bolts. I should have taken a picture before I threw them out last week. Every cylinder was leaking around the fire ring and the fire ring was melting.
I am running an ATS upgrade turbo with a 3" outlet flange and a waste gate that I customized.
As I said in the other post, 4500 in parts and machine work, I did all the labor myself.

I still have about 2000 dollars to spend on it to get it where I want it, but funds are to low to do that right now. Bright side is I get to break it in before I go the last couple of steps I have planned for it.

 

Dave. Sorry...I misled you. The pyrometer IS ahead of the turbo. Some good points you mentioned in your post. I am afraid to change the setting on the wastegate to increase turbo press more than 10 with a stock engine. Certainly don'y want to blow it. Soimething else I should mention. I am getting enough oil in the turbo from the crank vent to clog the tiny line that runs from turbo to press gauge on post. I fabricated a "sump" with a small drain valve on bottom for oil buildup. Only need to drain approx every 2k when I am pulling on hwy. Thanks for your help. Tom D

 

See the can on top of the drivers side rocker cover on my engine?

That is the CDR.
It needs serviced when you change the oil.
To service it remove it from the engine.
Drop it in a container the can be filled with gasoline to cover the CDR.
Let it soak for a while to disolve the oil buildup inside the CDR, then swish the gasoline around inside and rinse it out.
Set is aside so it can dry before reinstalling it.

Never used compressed air to blow it dry, you will rupture the diaphram inside.

The CDR is normally open so crankcase vapors are sent to the engine to burn.
A restricted air filter or vacuum from high engine RPM overpower the spring inside the CDR and close the valve inside to prevent sucking on the crankcase to hard.

If the CDR is not serviced, the oil crud builds up inside the CDR to the point it will not close.
Then the CDR sucks to much oil into the turbo.
When you rinse it out, if you see chunks of thin black rubber washing out of it, the diaphram is ruptured and the CDR needs replaced.

CDR stands for Crancase Depression Regulator
Same thing basically as a PVC valve on a gasser.

 

This is what the CDR looks like.



93

 

I removed the CDR as suggested and cleaned. It looked to be in good shape (no crud or rubber pieces) It DID have about 1/2 oz of oil in it as well as same amount in bottom of turbo intake and rubber hose that supplies it. The original CDR was moved from intake manifold with hose from IP gear housing to turbo intake between filter and turbo. This required a 36" hose be installed to go from IP gear housing to new CDR location. It appears the CDR is not doing it's job with all the oil I mentioned. Do I need to get a different one (stronger) because I have changed from natural aspirated to turbo?