peak hp and peak tq?
#16
11-07-2006, 05:59 PM
that sucks. I need think about this one.
Originally Posted by Creekowl
Just left the Ford dealer. Planned to order a 450 but stopped when told the HP for a 450 was 325, not 350, and worse yet, the torque was 600, not 650. I asked the Ford rep to check to see if it was a typo. He called a few minutes ago to advise that Ford engineering decided to detune the 450. The theory is with bigger rear end gear, you don't need as much power to get the job done. I have never ordered or driven a 450 or 550 but understand that detuning is common. I don't like it since I did not plan to order the 4.88 axle. It seems ordering the 350 with the optional 4.30 axle gives you the better motor with enough grunt to tow 18800 using a gooseneck. Might have to forego the bigger brakes, wider front end and better turning radius, and the stiffer suspension that the 450 brought to the table.
#18
11-07-2006, 06:38 PM
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Preliminary....
The information Ford has released so far...on the horsepower and torque are just "preliminary". There's that little note below that rating sheet. I think Ford is just keeping the true numbers down under until the vehicles actually hit the lots.
Remember, Chevy and Dodge is the competitors. They might make some adjustments to their production vehicles to meet Ford's.
Its pretty easy to make adjustments to the tuning with the computer controlling the engine. I would withhold my judgement until they all release their actual numbers after January when they HAVE to produce the diesel vehicles to meet EPA emission standards.
Remember, Chevy and Dodge is the competitors. They might make some adjustments to their production vehicles to meet Ford's.
Its pretty easy to make adjustments to the tuning with the computer controlling the engine. I would withhold my judgement until they all release their actual numbers after January when they HAVE to produce the diesel vehicles to meet EPA emission standards.
#19
11-07-2006, 07:10 PM
where does it say that?
Originally Posted by Blue Dog
The information Ford has released so far...on the horsepower and torque are just "preliminary". There's that little note below that rating sheet. I think Ford is just keeping the true numbers down under until the vehicles actually hit the lots.
Remember, Chevy and Dodge is the competitors. They might make some adjustments to their production vehicles to meet Ford's.
Its pretty easy to make adjustments to the tuning with the computer controlling the engine. I would withhold my judgement until they all release their actual numbers after January when they HAVE to produce the diesel vehicles to meet EPA emission standards.
Remember, Chevy and Dodge is the competitors. They might make some adjustments to their production vehicles to meet Ford's.
Its pretty easy to make adjustments to the tuning with the computer controlling the engine. I would withhold my judgement until they all release their actual numbers after January when they HAVE to produce the diesel vehicles to meet EPA emission standards.
#20
11-07-2006, 07:42 PM
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Reply to where the "note" is
Looking over the order guides for all the 2008 model year superduties, you will see the star next to the Engine Horsepower and Torque Ratings. Look down to the bottom of that block above dimensions....you will see it says all the numbers are preliminary. Recall that Ford changed the numbers somewhat after their "new" vehicles got actually producted and landed at dealership lots. Thats now the game is played, I am making an guess that this is what Ford is doing. Keeping actual numbers an mystery. It could be inflated or too low...the best bet is to wait until we can be able to actually drive one of them.
#21
11-07-2006, 07:44 PM
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OK here are some thoughts and concerns I've been having with FORDS new itelligent ? designed power plant.>
1. I really feel others here including myself have holded off buying a 6.0 or even dodge or duramax with hoaxed antisipation that the 6.4 would be the new hot, reliable top podium powerhouse diesel to buy between the big 3 .
I really can only laugh now(tired of crying)when FORD actually cannot sell these new 6.4s because
1)Buyers are reluctant/weary that they might get stooped and get a 1st year 6.4 problem engine.
2)The 6.4 will still be underpowered in comparison to the duramax.
3)The new 6.4 will get lousy fuel mileage and added maintenance cost with the second turbo ...
Does'nt it seem like more maintenace and cost issues to consider when deciding between a 2 turbo newly designed 6.4 or a single turboed proven duramax which incidently will still reign champion on the dyno.Oh and let us not forget that ,the awesome 6 speed allison automatic and the lesser msrp amongst ford versus chevy oh and the better fuel mileage.
In closing I must say I really wanted to buy a FORD FORD FORD bad azz?? ftlb twin turbo FORD(hehe yea not in this race).
I guess I'll be stuck with the weak duramax/allison image.
Only time will tell...
1. I really feel others here including myself have holded off buying a 6.0 or even dodge or duramax with hoaxed antisipation that the 6.4 would be the new hot, reliable top podium powerhouse diesel to buy between the big 3 .
I really can only laugh now(tired of crying)when FORD actually cannot sell these new 6.4s because
1)Buyers are reluctant/weary that they might get stooped and get a 1st year 6.4 problem engine.
2)The 6.4 will still be underpowered in comparison to the duramax.
3)The new 6.4 will get lousy fuel mileage and added maintenance cost with the second turbo ...
Does'nt it seem like more maintenace and cost issues to consider when deciding between a 2 turbo newly designed 6.4 or a single turboed proven duramax which incidently will still reign champion on the dyno.Oh and let us not forget that ,the awesome 6 speed allison automatic and the lesser msrp amongst ford versus chevy oh and the better fuel mileage.
In closing I must say I really wanted to buy a FORD FORD FORD bad azz?? ftlb twin turbo FORD(hehe yea not in this race).
I guess I'll be stuck with the weak duramax/allison image.
Only time will tell...
#22
11-07-2006, 07:57 PM
DIMENSIONS*
Overall Length Overall Width Overall Height
4x2/4x4
CREW CAB (Without Options)
172" (inches) TBD TBD 79.8/79.8
*NOTE: Dimensions are preliminary
that has nothing to do with Engine Horsepower and Torque ratings.
Edit: Im looking at the F350 order guide and it says it there, the F450 doesnt say it though
Overall Length Overall Width Overall Height
4x2/4x4
CREW CAB (Without Options)
172" (inches) TBD TBD 79.8/79.8
*NOTE: Dimensions are preliminary
that has nothing to do with Engine Horsepower and Torque ratings.
Edit: Im looking at the F350 order guide and it says it there, the F450 doesnt say it though
Originally Posted by Blue Dog
Looking over the order guides for all the 2008 model year superduties, you will see the star next to the Engine Horsepower and Torque Ratings. Look down to the bottom of that block above dimensions....you will see it says all the numbers are preliminary. Recall that Ford changed the numbers somewhat after their "new" vehicles got actually producted and landed at dealership lots. Thats now the game is played, I am making an guess that this is what Ford is doing. Keeping actual numbers an mystery. It could be inflated or too low...the best bet is to wait until we can be able to actually drive one of them.
Last edited by Percys Armory; 11-07-2006 at 08:02 PM.
#23
11-07-2006, 07:58 PM
enjoy your Silverado.
Originally Posted by jaybird
OK here are some thoughts and concerns I've been having with FORDS new itelligent ? designed power plant.>
1. I really feel others here including myself have holded off buying a 6.0 or even dodge or duramax with hoaxed antisipation that the 6.4 would be the new hot, reliable top podium powerhouse diesel to buy between the big 3 .
I really can only laugh now(tired of crying)when FORD actually cannot sell these new 6.4s because
1)Buyers are reluctant/weary that they might get stooped and get a 1st year 6.4 problem engine.
2)The 6.4 will still be underpowered in comparison to the duramax.
3)The new 6.4 will get lousy fuel mileage and added maintenance cost with the second turbo ...
Does'nt it seem like more maintenace and cost issues to consider when deciding between a 2 turbo newly designed 6.4 or a single turboed proven duramax which incidently will still reign champion on the dyno.Oh and let us not forget that ,the awesome 6 speed allison automatic and the lesser msrp amongst ford versus chevy oh and the better fuel mileage.
In closing I must say I really wanted to buy a FORD FORD FORD bad azz?? ftlb twin turbo FORD(hehe yea not in this race).
I guess I'll be stuck with the weak duramax/allison image.
Only time will tell...
1. I really feel others here including myself have holded off buying a 6.0 or even dodge or duramax with hoaxed antisipation that the 6.4 would be the new hot, reliable top podium powerhouse diesel to buy between the big 3 .
I really can only laugh now(tired of crying)when FORD actually cannot sell these new 6.4s because
1)Buyers are reluctant/weary that they might get stooped and get a 1st year 6.4 problem engine.
2)The 6.4 will still be underpowered in comparison to the duramax.
3)The new 6.4 will get lousy fuel mileage and added maintenance cost with the second turbo ...
Does'nt it seem like more maintenace and cost issues to consider when deciding between a 2 turbo newly designed 6.4 or a single turboed proven duramax which incidently will still reign champion on the dyno.Oh and let us not forget that ,the awesome 6 speed allison automatic and the lesser msrp amongst ford versus chevy oh and the better fuel mileage.
In closing I must say I really wanted to buy a FORD FORD FORD bad azz?? ftlb twin turbo FORD(hehe yea not in this race).
I guess I'll be stuck with the weak duramax/allison image.
Only time will tell...
#24
11-08-2006, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Percys Armory
enjoy your Silverado.
I still have some hope and patience for Ford to give us what we have been wating for but if not then why not a duramax;thats the only reasonable way I can look at it being ,that I'm not privi to excess money flow ..
Thanks
#25
11-08-2006, 08:40 AM
Originally Posted by Blue Dog
Looking over the order guides for all the 2008 model year superduties, you will see the star next to the Engine Horsepower and Torque Ratings. Look down to the bottom of that block above dimensions....you will see it says all the numbers are preliminary. Recall that Ford changed the numbers somewhat after their "new" vehicles got actually producted and landed at dealership lots. Thats now the game is played, I am making an guess that this is what Ford is doing. Keeping actual numbers an mystery. It could be inflated or too low...the best bet is to wait until we can be able to actually drive one of them.
#26
11-08-2006, 11:17 AM
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imagine what a programmer would do do that engine. Look what you can get out of the 7.3s and 6.0Ls, the twin turbo 6.4 should respond a hell of a lot better to one then a single turbo engine does. Just have to watch out for that warranty thing, and be able to disconnect it without a trace when you need an engine overhaul or new tranny because youve been running around with 1000#'s torque with nothing but a programmer lol.
#27
11-09-2006, 09:19 AM
Originally Posted by pud
imagine what a programmer would do do that engine. Look what you can get out of the 7.3s and 6.0Ls, the twin turbo 6.4 should respond a hell of a lot better to one then a single turbo engine does. Just have to watch out for that warranty thing, and be able to disconnect it without a trace when you need an engine overhaul or new tranny because youve been running around with 1000#'s torque with nothing but a programmer lol.
#29
11-09-2006, 05:20 PM
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[QUOTE=zontral]Good question, It is making more hp at a lower rpm. but I wish the torque was a little lower. I thought that by have 2 turbos it might be more efficient and make the torque lower. Oh well. Im sure this engine will pull like crazy. can't wait to test drive one.
Quote from jaybird as follows:
Right now the duramax can only be had with 373 gears i wonder if that will change in there 2007 1/2 model..
If it does not change and they are still stuck with 373's then I think its obvious the 2008 6.4 with either 4.30 or 4.88 will be the true stump puller!!!
I must say I was having pitiful thoughts about the new 2008 but hey I just came back from the local ford dealership and they gave me a "2008 F-SERIES superduty pickup preview guide"
I am so happy in seeing that at the very least if I can't order 4.88 or 4.30 gears in the 350 I dang sure can in the 450...
Anyway,I hope WHEN THE ACTUAL ORDER GUIDE COMES OUT I will have the option to order a F350 6.4 auto cc dually with 4.88 gears.
Chevy can have there extra 20ftlbs of torque and 3.73 gears I'll take the 600ftlb or 650 ftlb's and 4.88 gears..Oh and the straight axles and more interior room..
Today has been a good day for me and for ford....
Now I wonder how wide the new dually wheels will be?I'm gonna lift that bad boy2008 eight inches and put 39's on it and it will be dressed all black with dvd's front and back...
LETS ROLL!!!
OK now back to reality=how much is it gonna cost me??
Quote from jaybird as follows:
Right now the duramax can only be had with 373 gears i wonder if that will change in there 2007 1/2 model..
If it does not change and they are still stuck with 373's then I think its obvious the 2008 6.4 with either 4.30 or 4.88 will be the true stump puller!!!
I must say I was having pitiful thoughts about the new 2008 but hey I just came back from the local ford dealership and they gave me a "2008 F-SERIES superduty pickup preview guide"
I am so happy in seeing that at the very least if I can't order 4.88 or 4.30 gears in the 350 I dang sure can in the 450...
Anyway,I hope WHEN THE ACTUAL ORDER GUIDE COMES OUT I will have the option to order a F350 6.4 auto cc dually with 4.88 gears.
Chevy can have there extra 20ftlbs of torque and 3.73 gears I'll take the 600ftlb or 650 ftlb's and 4.88 gears..Oh and the straight axles and more interior room..
Today has been a good day for me and for ford....
Now I wonder how wide the new dually wheels will be?I'm gonna lift that bad boy2008 eight inches and put 39's on it and it will be dressed all black with dvd's front and back...
LETS ROLL!!!
OK now back to reality=how much is it gonna cost me??
Last edited by jaybird; 11-09-2006 at 05:23 PM.
#30
11-09-2006, 06:36 PM
don't count your chickens before they hatch.
i don't know who would want 4.88 gears. If a truck can't pull with it's max GCVWR with 3.73's , then I think there is truely a problem. The LBZ sure doesn't seem to have any problems towing a loaded 5th wheel at the speed limit, by the time you chip these trucks, I think you have wasted your time, money, and fuel by ordering with 4.30 or 4.88 gear.
The 450 is one thing, but a 3/4 or a 1 ton truck doesn't need more than 3.73's unless it is over it's GVW or has a large lift and huge tires.
Personally, I would take the added torque lower in the rpm, and the assumed lesser weight of the GM over the extra weight lesser power with deeper gears.
You have 300hp in the F150 now, and it doesn't compare to the GM 300hp, what is going to be said about the F250 350 hp and torque when compared to the GM? Deeper gears just covers it up.
Even if GM offers 4.10's mileage would still be decent as that would make 6 gear the same as the old 5th gear. I wonder if GM did that on purpose?
I know it was a figure of speech, but the stump only moves if you have traction. I have yet to need deeper gear or more hp to pull a stump.
i don't know who would want 4.88 gears. If a truck can't pull with it's max GCVWR with 3.73's , then I think there is truely a problem. The LBZ sure doesn't seem to have any problems towing a loaded 5th wheel at the speed limit, by the time you chip these trucks, I think you have wasted your time, money, and fuel by ordering with 4.30 or 4.88 gear.
The 450 is one thing, but a 3/4 or a 1 ton truck doesn't need more than 3.73's unless it is over it's GVW or has a large lift and huge tires.
Personally, I would take the added torque lower in the rpm, and the assumed lesser weight of the GM over the extra weight lesser power with deeper gears.
You have 300hp in the F150 now, and it doesn't compare to the GM 300hp, what is going to be said about the F250 350 hp and torque when compared to the GM? Deeper gears just covers it up.
Even if GM offers 4.10's mileage would still be decent as that would make 6 gear the same as the old 5th gear. I wonder if GM did that on purpose?
I know it was a figure of speech, but the stump only moves if you have traction. I have yet to need deeper gear or more hp to pull a stump.