Why did ford go with the V Block? - Page 5 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums



6.4L Power Stroke Diesel Engine fitted to 2008 - 2010 F250, F350 and F450 pickup trucks and F350 + Cab Chassis

Why did ford go with the V Block?

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  #61  
Old 10-06-2006, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79 FORD
I wasn't omparing the two. I have driven POS I means PSD's and a duramax or two but I still prefer the cummins.

Its threads like this that I keep my *** in the 73-79 forum. All the bias opinions of people can get annoying. If Ford was running an I-6 then this thread would be about how much better the inlines are. And as for the V Cats I have run a few old 3408's (i believe) and it was a dog but they have some major potential.

V8's are for gassers.
Well in your world of 351Ms and IDI diesels the cummins probably feels like a ferrari.........
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  #62  
Old 10-06-2006, 10:33 PM
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actually u would be surprised how much of a difference configurations make when it comes to torque. take a look at jeep and there I6 vs. there v6. at comparable sizes the u can always get more torque out of the I6.
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  #63  
Old 10-06-2006, 10:56 PM
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haha, this is the most rediculous thread ive seen in here in a while. hhhmmm, nissan skyline GT-Rs have inline engines and they rev to 7000 stock, higher modified. BMW M3s have an 8000RPM redline stock. and these are just a few examples of inlines that can rev.
could someone explain to me how the angle at which the pistons are positioned makes a difference in RPM and torque at all?!?!?! that makes absoloutley no sense. so where do boxer(basically an inline on its side) fit into this? and what about narrow and wide angle V engines? and if V engines rev higher then why are 4 bangers inlines? such a rediculous areguement.
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  #64  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ry_Trapp0
haha, this is the most rediculous thread ive seen in here in a while. hhhmmm, nissan skyline GT-Rs have inline engines and they rev to 7000 stock, higher modified. BMW M3s have an 8000RPM redline stock. and these are just a few examples of inlines that can rev.
could someone explain to me how the angle at which the pistons are positioned makes a difference in RPM and torque at all?!?!?! that makes absoloutley no sense. so where do boxer(basically an inline on its side) fit into this? and what about narrow and wide angle V engines? and if V engines rev higher then why are 4 bangers inlines? such a rediculous areguement.
Well said.
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  #65  
Old 10-06-2006, 11:35 PM
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Ok, I'm going out on a limb here because I'm about 1% knowledgeable on this subject. The whole inline vs. V configuration seems to be nothing more than a space-saving issue. If you line up 8 cylinders next to each other in a line they would make for an extremely long block and monsterously long crank. Split them in half and then alternate one, just inside the other (like a v configuration), you end up with 8 cylinders in a much more compact space with the added benefit of increasing the overall cooling surface area. Can someone explain the physics of why an inline would produce more torque? Something more than what my wife would say? Like, "If you don't understand by now I'm not going to tell you". I'm just not hearing anything here that truly gives me a reason to believe one design produces more hp or tq than the other.

Oh, and take this for what it's worth. It's an honest question. Not looking for any flames here...
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  #66  
Old 10-07-2006, 12:03 AM
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I know this is a diesel forum and GM is a dirty word here but lets face it an engine is an engine. Comparing GM's 4.3 V6 to thier 4.2 I6.
size(L)4.2 4.3
Bore 93mm 4"
Stroke 102mm 3.48"
CR 10.3:1 9.2:1
HP [email protected] [email protected]
TQ [email protected] [email protected]

I think the difference in displacement is minimal and the I6 should more than make up for it in CR and the fact that it is a newer design with DOHC and VVT. Despite these advantages of a longer stroke to Bore ratio and the magical I6 design that everyone on here seems to think is the be all and end all of torque production, it only makes a whoping 17 ft lb more and at 2000rpm higher in the rpm band. The V6 is clearly the low rpm grunter between the two. Its all in the Cams and cylinder heads guys, and in the case of diesels also in th turbos. My source for the data:
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en...07/07truck.htm

Last edited by duffman77; 10-07-2006 at 12:06 AM.
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  #67  
Old 10-07-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herman2001
HOnestly yes I love my truck but yes I do wish it was an inline 6 Cat diesel made an engine modle 3208 complete desaster v8 does not belong in the diesel market for heavy duty use that's fine for the auto market VW, jeeps , beetles, but look carfully the little diesel cars use mostly inline 4 cylinders, Cat diesel makes a C8 heui engine it's an inline 6 and surprise it's a 7.1 litre and I've seen one with 500,000 on it when they do break the block is junk due to the fact that they are parent bore can't rebuild or replace the liners ( no liners) and much to much the same as at what's in all our superduty trucks, and to answer the question unfortunatly a V8 design is a throw away motor but enjoy it now while it works
Very well said.
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  #68  
Old 10-07-2006, 09:18 AM
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You know, Detroit Diesel has been producing V8 diesels since the 1940s. Its true that an inline 6 will produce more torque but it take up more room. Something you donít have in the nose of a pick up.
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  #69  
Old 10-07-2006, 10:58 AM
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Your freind at KW is correct, the I-6 engine is a stronger design than the V. The I-6 block has 7 mains compaired to 5 in the V-8, also when a inline engine fires the load on the block is straight up and down and the V-design pushes on the sides of the crankcase. I teach diesel technology at a technical college and most heavy duty diesel engines for the truck industry are I-6. With this being said there are still some very good and reliable V-8 diesel engines out and I would not be afraid to own an inline or V engine.
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  #70  
Old 10-07-2006, 12:05 PM
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Jones02sporttrac
I was under the somewhat same impression the V8 was put in the super duty because it allowed ford to keep the same design space as was used for the gas v8 ford put in the super duties. So they could have one frame for all of them.
If I remember correctly isn't the dodge diesel frame longer than the one the gas engines have to allow for the longer and higher engine of the cummins motor?
Also if memory is working aren't I6 diesels heavier than a v8? I know the cat inline 6's weight more and are taller than a v8. I think ford was looking for an easy way to get a diesel into the super duty and have some commonality with the rest of the trucks they built.
I would love to see more diesels in more vehicles like the F150, exp, maybe even a few of the small cars.
As to which is better I don't know as I have seen inline 6's that go bad and also v8's , I think it depends more the driver and the one who maintains the engine how far it will go before replacement. Just like mileage I can get good and crap from the same vehicle depending on how fast I want to get from point A to point B. I think engines are alot the same as to how long they last it all depends on what you can live with.
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  #71  
Old 10-07-2006, 12:15 PM
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Right, I wasn't thinking about the height advantage a V configuration has over the Inline. An inline 8 would not only be longer, but taller as well and would be impossible to fit into a pickup. The V design simply is a way of packing more punch into a given space. I'd guess you could say I'm forming an opinion...
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  #72  
Old 10-07-2006, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambainer
Your freind at KW is correct, the I-6 engine is a stronger design than the V. The I-6 block has 7 mains compaired to 5 in the V-8, also when a inline engine fires the load on the block is straight up and down and the V-design pushes on the sides of the crankcase. I teach diesel technology at a technical college and most heavy duty diesel engines for the truck industry are I-6. With this being said there are still some very good and reliable V-8 diesel engines out and I would not be afraid to own an inline or V engine.
Best answer yet.
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  #73  
Old 10-07-2006, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shdwlkr
Jones02sporttrac
I was under the somewhat same impression the V8 was put in the super duty because it allowed ford to keep the same design space as was used for the gas v8 ford put in the super duties. So they could have one frame for all of them.
If I remember correctly isn't the dodge diesel frame longer than the one the gas engines have to allow for the longer and higher engine of the cummins motor?
Also if memory is working aren't I6 diesels heavier than a v8? I know the cat inline 6's weight more and are taller than a v8. I think ford was looking for an easy way to get a diesel into the super duty and have some commonality with the rest of the trucks they built.
I would love to see more diesels in more vehicles like the F150, exp, maybe even a few of the small cars.
As to which is better I don't know as I have seen inline 6's that go bad and also v8's , I think it depends more the driver and the one who maintains the engine how far it will go before replacement. Just like mileage I can get good and crap from the same vehicle depending on how fast I want to get from point A to point B. I think engines are alot the same as to how long they last it all depends on what you can live with.
Not sure if it's a fit issue at all, there's someone out there that makes a drop in Cummins conversion for PSDs -- something on the order of $12k to do it. Changing the frame would be a bit radical, IMO, if that was one of the requirements to do the conversion...
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  #74  
Old 10-07-2006, 05:20 PM
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Last I knew it is called fordcummins.com and they change the firewall to make the fit I think. I looked at that before I got my new ford. It is way cheaper to have the factory do the work. I know the cummins is longer than the v8.
dodge had to change their frame when they put the cummins in. I remember when they first came out they were noticablly longer than a gas engine and wider and had stiffer parts to handle the diesel. Dodge was the one bragging on all the changes including the transmission.
Oh well I am happy with my truck and that is all that matters to me and if it lasts as long as I hope it does then I got a really good deal.
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  #75  
Old 10-09-2006, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herman2001
HOnestly yes I love my truck but yes I do wish it was an inline 6 Cat diesel made an engine modle 3208 complete desaster v8 does not belong in the diesel market for heavy duty use that's fine for the auto market VW, jeeps , beetles, but look carfully the little diesel cars use mostly inline 4 cylinders, Cat diesel makes a C8 heui engine it's an inline 6 and surprise it's a 7.1 litre and I've seen one with 500,000 on it when they do break the block is junk due to the fact that they are parent bore can't rebuild or replace the liners ( no liners) and much to much the same as at what's in all our superduty trucks, and to answer the question unfortunatly a V8 design is a throw away motor but enjoy it now while it works

Of course the Inline 6 B-Series Cummins is also a "throw away" parent bore engine.
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