So apparently a guy down my street drives a '59 Ranchero with a 292. Maybe this town isn't so boring after all. Point is, he has a spare triple-deuce intake for a Y-block. The Y-block I just won on eBay has the ECZ heads with the large valves and intake ports. He says this intake fits the earlier heads (239/256/272) with smaller intake ports.

If I just slap this manifold on my 292, will it work? For that matter, will it work well? Is it possible at all to open up the ports on the manifold to match the heads?

 

Following site gives the most information I have seen.

http://m571.com/yblock/intake.htm

I finally decided not to run an Edlebrock 553 on my built 292 and got the Blue Thunder.

The 553 I had also had two plates so could block off the front and rear carbs. Keep the look, use less fuel and no problems keeping the carbs balanced.

Good Luck

TC

 

I'm not familiar with the Y blocks, so I can't help on the details.

I can tell you that the sudden increase in intake runner diameter will give you all sorts of problems.

At low rpms the mixture velocity will suddenly slow and the fuel will attempt to fall out of suspension. How bad it is depends on a lot of factors. The more souped up the engine is the worse it will get. You may even get puddling and stalling.

At high rpms, if you like NASCAR, think of it as a restrictor plate. Teams have to design engines just for restrictor plate tracks. And they still make less power.

If you can sucessfully match the ports with a slow transition it should work. If it's a show car it may not matter anyway. I'd follow Tom's link to find a manifold that matches your designs for the engine. You'll always be happier with matching components.

 

I'll try not to write yet another book here.

To answer your questions briefly in order....

A) Yes, it should physically bolt in place. The port mismatch isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on how everything fits, & what intake it is. It may help keep mixture velocity up in certain situations, a good thing with tri-powers on a relatively small engine like the 292. It also may be a problem; depends on just how bad it is. Some of this depends on the cam overlap and the intake valve opening point.

B) That depends on a lot of things, primarily your patience level & carburetor knowledge. I'll go back to this one in a minute.

C) Do you know what intake he has? There are three, or four, depending on who you believe, common "small port" tri-powers for the Ford Y. The Edelbrock 553, the Offy 2726 (239) & 3199 ('55-'56 Y), & the Fenton/Edmunds, which are rumored to be the same intake. I've not seen them side by side, so I don't know for sure. Edmunds cast up a lot of pieces for Fenton (among others), so it's possible that they are.

Here's what I know from personal experience: I have seen an Offy in the flesh, & it would be very difficult to port match it to ECZ-Gs, if not impossible. There's just not enough there, on the example I saw.
However...

I have read, in various places, that it can be done. In none of these was it indicated that the person had actually tried to do it, took measurements, & so forth. Take it with a grain of salt. Per A, it might not be an issue so much, as long as the intake will seal to the heads.


Going back to B: It depends on a number of things. Tri-powers can be made to work, & pretty well at that, but it's not exactly a bolt-on proposition, as a rule.

Does he have carburetors for it, or do you have a source? And, what's on your wish list for the engine? Are you looking for extra performance? Eye candy? Impressing others? Gas mileage? All of the above?

The easiest method, bar none, is to take a tip from Tom & run the center carb only, with outer blockoffs. This isn't the greatest in terms of performance or mixture distribution, but it solves a lot of problems.

Assuming you want to be a REAL man & use all three , I'd highly recommend that you use progressive linkage. Your life will be a living hell without it, unless you thoroughly understand carburetion principles, and specifically how to tune whichever carbs you've chosen. Others will dispute this; my response would be to take a drive with them and see what they consider "driveable" & "runs good". A lot of guys have low standards. Also, consider their knowledge level (or ability to pay somebody else to do the work), & the engine & vehicle. What worked for them may not work for you.

You'll also need to consider whether you need any vacuum for accessories, and your distributor vacuum advance, if any.

As someone here said a while back, everybody goes through the tripower stage, & 99% of them end up sitting on the shelf until the person eBays them again, which is where they bought them in the first place. It can be frustrating to set one up right. That's not to say that they won't work. 286 Merc has one, on a 292 IIRC, & likes it.

The Edelbrock 357 is the large port tripower intake that is generally considered the best for the Ford/Merc Y block, if you have time to look around a little; they come up on the Bay fairly often.


A couple of threads which may help you:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/4...e-problem.html

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/4...-question.html

 

Thanks for all the info. Here's a little run-down of my intentions for the Y-block ...

The main thing I'm going for with the 3x2 is the '50s-custom look. The performance upgrade is also something I'm looking for, but it's not of utmost importance. However, this truck is also a daily driver so I'd like to maximize gas mileage.

I just got the Y-block, so depending on my evaluation of its condition, I may be running it soon. I'll probably just run the motor pretty much stock until either Christmas break or next summer. If I manage to get my hands on a good triple deuce intake before then, I think I'll run it with blockoff plates. Once I get a chance to do a little work to it, I plan on getting headers and a cam with just a little lope. At that time I'll unblock the carbs and run a progressive linkage.

 

"C) Do you know what intake he has? There are three, or four, depending on who you believe, common "small port" tri-powers for the Ford Y"

Homespun add the Weiand FM436 to that list. I have one I am going to use on my 292 with Offy progressive linkage. There are a few pics in my gallery.

 

This is my son's Tri-power ready to install in the new chassis. Its an "Offy" big port, took a little tweeking but runs real strong.






FABMANDELUX.

 

Hey Roger,

I hadn't forgotten about the Weiand- just doesn't seem "common" to me. I hardly ever see them at swaps or the Bay. Now that I think on it, I guess I've only seen one. But, maybe they are more common than I think. Might be an Illinois thing.

Or, maybe they're really rare & you're sitting on a gold mine!

Do you have any pics that show the intake directly from the top? I'm wondering how the runners compare to the other trips.

Fab, that's a pretty spiffy lookin' engine. I like the overall effect. Those Offy big ports seem pretty rare too, I've only seen a couple.

I'd like to get my hands on one & flow it on a bench, along with some other Y intakes. The E-brock 357 is supposed to be the best tripower, but what's the big Offy truly giving up, if anything? And, the small port Offys are so common you can buy 'em at Wal-Mart, practically. Be nice to be able to say "port here, here, & here & get the same flow", or definitively say that the small Offy will or will not match to a 113 or G head. Maybe in 2007....(I keep saying "next year"...maybe it'll happen!)

 

[QUOTE=Homespun91]Hey Roger,

Do you have any pics that show the intake directly from the top? I'm wondering how the runners compare to the other trips./QUOTE]

Take a look at my web page http://members.***.net/rogerdh/three.html

 

Oh, THAT web page.

Nah, I was actually looking in yer FTE gallery. That's a darn nice web page!

 

There are three sizes of ports for the Y Block: the 1954 239 size, the 55-56 size, and the 57-up "Big Port" size. The 55-56 size is pretty close to the 239 size -- close enough that you might not tell them apart at first glance. It's my guess that Ford enlarged the ports for the larger engines of 55 and 56 without altering the casting process very much.

(Note that Fel-Pro has a different intake gasket number for each of these 3 sizes.)

The 57 and up big port heads are quite a bit different in size than the older ones. From this, it's clear that Ford significantly altered the castings of the manifolds and heads.

I don't have any experience in doing what you are asking about. My experience was in using the big-port 9425 B intake on 239 heads -- the reverse of what you are doing. The port mismatch was very great: the machined casting pad around the 239 ports was only about 1/16" larger than the inside of the big port manifold ports. This is hardly sufficient, in my mind, to offer a reliable seal, and yet in my situation it worked.

How did it work? Running the 312 Holley 4150 4v and the big port 57 manifold on a very tired 239, it worked great. Much better than the stock 2v (tho I'll readily admit that some of the difference was due to getting rid of the Load O Matic distributor and using a newer one).

This same kind of port mismatch was often done in the 70s with Cleveland 2v engines and 4v manifolds, and with Lima 429/460 stock heads and CJ/SCJ manifolds. In those cases, it was reported that power was increased, despite the large mismatch, which parallels my experience on my 239.

You propose to go the "other way." I don't see any reason why you shouldn't try it, if you want to, and looks is a valid reason to do it (in my opinion). If you can get Carl to post here (which he still does occasionally as "286Merc"), he was very experienced at setting up tripowers for Y Blocks and flatheads. If he doesn't answer this thread, I suggest that you do a search for his posts, for he's answered your tripower setup questions on this foro many times and in great detail. He covers the use of Holley/Ford 94s vs. Strombergs, too.

Other than that, the thing I'd suggest is that you carefully study YOUR combination to satisfy yourself that you will get a good seal when you bolt your parts together.

Mummert's flow bench tests of heads showed that there was hardly any difference at all between the "G" (big port) head and the "C" (55-56 style) head. This was due, Mummert thought, to the shrouded combustion chambers, because there was a larger difference between the "C" head and the 471 (open chamber truck and blower style heads) and 113 (1958 heads) versions.

More importantly to your issue, however, is that both Mummert's and Christensen's flow bench tests showed that the big restrictions occured as soon as an intake manifold was bolted on. This means that installing a more restrictive intake is going to make a difference -- not because of any mismatch, but because you would be exacerbating the biggest existing problem: the manifold.

Personally, if you are setting up a driver I think that a lot of this is academic. In that case, I would look for the large 1957 Holley 2v ECG carb (which has modern "pull over" booster venturis, instead of the old "hat" style of the older carbs) and run the ends blocked off. This will also save you money by doing away with the need for a progressive linkage, or bothing with one.