BioDiesel 101 - I need Help!!
#1
#2
Originally Posted by RDC F250 7.3
Whats the largest size I can ( should) mix at one time? I would like to mix 100 gallons at a time. And is there a true kit that I can buy or Plans that I can follow to make my own bioplant?
Bobby
Bobby
For info on kits and plans try here: http://biodieselcommunity.org
FABMANDELUX.
#3
I'm building a plant to do 25 gallon batches of vegetable oil. 30 gallon drum to store up the oil, 55 gallon drum to mix 25 gallons oil with 5 gallons methanol. After mixing and draining the glycerin, I'll pump to a another 55 gallon for washing. Prior to washing I plan on heating up the reactor to about 140 and driving off the methanol. The point being the less free alcohol the better for rubber elements in the fuel system. So methanol recovery and washing is a good idea for Fords. Then use blended up to 50% with petro diesel, making B50. Ford only recommends B5, but B20 to B50 is ok. Also if you have a two tank system run B50 in one tank and petro diesel in the other. Switch to the petro diesel before shut down on the home stretch. This will flush out your pump and injectors so they don't bathe in the biodiesel which can be hard on rubber seals.
Big Blue
Big Blue
#4
Originally Posted by BigBlue2
I'm building a plant to do 25 gallon batches of vegetable oil. 30 gallon drum to store up the oil, 55 gallon drum to mix 25 gallons oil with 5 gallons methanol. After mixing and draining the glycerin, I'll pump to a another 55 gallon for washing. Prior to washing I plan on heating up the reactor to about 140 and driving off the methanol. The point being the less free alcohol the better for rubber elements in the fuel system. So methanol recovery and washing is a good idea for Fords. Then use blended up to 50% with petro diesel, making B50. Ford only recommends B5, but B20 to B50 is ok. Also if you have a two tank system run B50 in one tank and petro diesel in the other. Switch to the petro diesel before shut down on the home stretch. This will flush out your pump and injectors so they don't bathe in the biodiesel which can be hard on rubber seals.
Big Blue
Big Blue
The plant we're building in Idaho will use a tank heated to 150 deg with 10" of vacuume and will remove the Methanol from 1,500 gal of biodiesel in under 30 min.
FABMANDELUX.
#5
Yes...sorry...closer to 150 degrees is needed.
1500 gallons! Holy cow...that's a huge processor, I'm impressed! You must be making B100 for sale? I'm just trying to be a home brewer in the garage. I'm almost ready to build a batch. I have a few more things to put together.
I was thinking of recovering methanol directly from the reactor. After the reaction is completed, say after an hour of mixing, I'm thinking of raising the temperature at the end to say 150 to drive off the excess methanol. This would be done with the mixing pump still running and before the settling of the glycerin. What do you think?
BB2
1500 gallons! Holy cow...that's a huge processor, I'm impressed! You must be making B100 for sale? I'm just trying to be a home brewer in the garage. I'm almost ready to build a batch. I have a few more things to put together.
I was thinking of recovering methanol directly from the reactor. After the reaction is completed, say after an hour of mixing, I'm thinking of raising the temperature at the end to say 150 to drive off the excess methanol. This would be done with the mixing pump still running and before the settling of the glycerin. What do you think?
BB2
#6
Originally Posted by BigBlue2
Yes...sorry...closer to 150 degrees is needed.
1500 gallons! Holy cow...that's a huge processor, I'm impressed! You must be making B100 for sale? I'm just trying to be a home brewer in the garage. I'm almost ready to build a batch. I have a few more things to put together.
I was thinking of recovering methanol directly from the reactor. After the reaction is completed, say after an hour of mixing, I'm thinking of raising the temperature at the end to say 150 to drive off the excess methanol. This would be done with the mixing pump still running and before the settling of the glycerin. What do you think?
BB2
1500 gallons! Holy cow...that's a huge processor, I'm impressed! You must be making B100 for sale? I'm just trying to be a home brewer in the garage. I'm almost ready to build a batch. I have a few more things to put together.
I was thinking of recovering methanol directly from the reactor. After the reaction is completed, say after an hour of mixing, I'm thinking of raising the temperature at the end to say 150 to drive off the excess methanol. This would be done with the mixing pump still running and before the settling of the glycerin. What do you think?
BB2
In a word.....no! If you try and recover the Methanol BEFORE you drain the glycerol you will REVERSE THE REACTION!
By removing the methanol first the glycerin will recombine with the esters and turn back to oil, not a good thing. You MUST make sure you have as much of the glycerol removed as you can before removing the Methanol.
FABMANDELUX.
#7
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
In a word.....no! If you try and recover the Methanol BEFORE you drain the glycerol you will REVERSE THE REACTION!
By removing the methanol first the glycerin will recombine with the esters and turn back to oil, not a good thing. You MUST make sure you have as much of the glycerol removed as you can before removing the Methanol.
FABMANDELUX.
By removing the methanol first the glycerin will recombine with the esters and turn back to oil, not a good thing. You MUST make sure you have as much of the glycerol removed as you can before removing the Methanol.
FABMANDELUX.
After that I'm planning on washing my biodiesel by the pump mixing method. What method do you use and why?
Sorry for so many questions, but I'm really close to making my first batch and I do not have any mentors. Just a few books and the internet.
Thanks
BB2
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#8
Originally Posted by BigBlue2
I'm building a plant to do 25 gallon batches of vegetable oil. 30 gallon drum to store up the oil, 55 gallon drum to mix 25 gallons oil with 5 gallons methanol. After mixing and draining the glycerin, I'll pump to a another 55 gallon for washing. Prior to washing I plan on heating up the reactor to about 140 and driving off the methanol. The point being the less free alcohol the better for rubber elements in the fuel system. So methanol recovery and washing is a good idea for Fords. Then use blended up to 50% with petro diesel, making B50. Ford only recommends B5, but B20 to B50 is ok. Also if you have a two tank system run B50 in one tank and petro diesel in the other. Switch to the petro diesel before shut down on the home stretch. This will flush out your pump and injectors so they don't bathe in the biodiesel which can be hard on rubber seals.
Big Blue
Big Blue
Your preaching to the Choir. You dont have to switch for bio..your mistaking veggie oil use.
#9
Originally Posted by BigBlue2
Check! I will drain off the glycerin first, then drive off excess methanol through my condensor to the methanol recovery vessel. I was hoping the esters would be stable under additional heat after combining with the alcohol. But if the reaction is reversible then I better drain first. Too bad, cause I will have to use extra energy to heat up the batch after settling lets it cool down.
After that I'm planning on washing my biodiesel by the pump mixing method. What method do you use and why?
Sorry for so many questions, but I'm really close to making my first batch and I do not have any mentors. Just a few books and the internet.
Thanks
BB2
After that I'm planning on washing my biodiesel by the pump mixing method. What method do you use and why?
Sorry for so many questions, but I'm really close to making my first batch and I do not have any mentors. Just a few books and the internet.
Thanks
BB2
I just don't belive adding water to any diesel is a good idea. The plant I'm building in Idaho will use Magnesol, and I'm switching over to Magnesol in my operation also.
If you use water-wash you should use 30 percent water a min of 3 times, plus you have to heat it up to drive off the excess water. So for every 100 gallons of Biodiesel you make you will produce 90 gallons of waste water.........what do you do with that? Pour it down the drain? Dump it on the ground? Not something I want to do.................
If you want more info on Magnesol try here:
http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page1.html
FABMANDELUX.
#10
Originally Posted by kennedyford
Your preaching to the Choir. You dont have to switch for bio..your mistaking veggie oil use.
#11
Your refering to older vehicles and such and a few dollars on modern replacements will take care of that need. As for a mentor, Fabman is mine as well as Phxudullwhatever he spells it for chemical info. Read on and enjoy, I drive a newer truck without having to worry about the oring and rubber.
#12
Originally Posted by kennedyford
Your refering to older vehicles and such and a few dollars on modern replacements will take care of that need. As for a mentor, Fabman is mine as well as Phxudullwhatever he spells it for chemical info. Read on and enjoy, I drive a newer truck without having to worry about the oring and rubber.
Thanks,
BB2
#13
Im glad I read the whole posting before I passed any judgement. I understand what you mean as far as the Viton replacements. I recall someone running into that same problem on this forum and listing what they did to upgrade and keep parts from dissenegrating. I will do a lil research here and there and see if we cant get you answer and part numbers for replacements. As far as I can recall its just a replacement upgrades for the fuel system lines and any orings that may come in contact. Now this next statement is rhetorical , are the orings today regardless of application made of the newer material? Next, I dont care what ford says, they are just protecting themselves from liabilities with the 5 percent statement. Do you have any of the manuals on your year engine? If not pm Monsterbaby and maybe he can get you schematics of the fuel system lines and orings that come in contact. Fords exploded view of those areas show the correct dimensions of all orings and hoses. Then its just a mater of calling the aircompressor and ac shops and anyone else dealing with oring so you can just pop a injector and put on a few orings.
#14
Originally Posted by BigBlue2
I was thinking of recovering methanol directly from the reactor. After the reaction is completed, say after an hour of mixing, I'm thinking of raising the temperature at the end to say 150 to drive off the excess methanol. This would be done with the mixing pump still running and before the settling of the glycerin. What do you think? BB2
Here is an interesting point that takes advantage of a similar concept.
If you draw glycerol off during the reacion process and add more methoxide you will actually drive the reaction in a favorable direction and increase yield plus reduce the probability of making soap
#15
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
I do not water-wash my bio, I know, I know.........EVERYBODY washes their bio. I let mine settle for 30 days, which lets any soap,Lye, etc, settle out. The Methanol will evaporate out in about 30 days also.
I just don't belive adding water to any diesel is a good idea. The plant I'm building in Idaho will use Magnesol, and I'm switching over to Magnesol in my operation also.
If you use water-wash you should use 30 percent water a min of 3 times, plus you have to heat it up to drive off the excess water. So for every 100 gallons of Biodiesel you make you will produce 90 gallons of waste water.........what do you do with that? Pour it down the drain? Dump it on the ground? Not something I want to do.................
If you want more info on Magnesol try here:
http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page1.html
FABMANDELUX.
I just don't belive adding water to any diesel is a good idea. The plant I'm building in Idaho will use Magnesol, and I'm switching over to Magnesol in my operation also.
If you use water-wash you should use 30 percent water a min of 3 times, plus you have to heat it up to drive off the excess water. So for every 100 gallons of Biodiesel you make you will produce 90 gallons of waste water.........what do you do with that? Pour it down the drain? Dump it on the ground? Not something I want to do.................
If you want more info on Magnesol try here:
http://www.fryerpower.com/store/page1.html
FABMANDELUX.
FabMan, i see the hassle of washing and the subsequent waste water.
If you are gravity settling your fuel for 30 days how are you disposing of the settled part?
Do i need a special vented holding tank for that 30 days?
TIA