I would like to know the real story of why they're are going to the 6.4tt and abandon the 6.0 after only three and half years. I've herd alot of the arguments. Some peolple have said it is because it's because of the problems with the 6.0. Many others have said that the 6.0 is the best engine they have ever had and there is no problems with it at all. There is the emission standards for '07 that it has to meet as well. None of these reasons make sense.
Lets start with the emsission standards first. Why design an engine that you will only be able to use for three and half years for emission reasons? Three and half years is not long enough to realize your envestment in developing an engine. To counter this it has been said that 6.4tt is a modified 6.0 and it was always designed to be that way. Why would they do that why not just make the engine meet '07 standards right from begining? It would be great for bragging rights. The only thing I can think of is that they pushed it to market in the middle of development if this is true. Or maybe they really thought the 6.0 would meet the '07 standards and it did not when they tested it and just needed time to make some changes. If the 6.4tt is a completly different engine than the 6.0 then somebody at Ford is a financial idiot and it's no wonder it has been reported they have had trouble.
As far as the engine having problems, I won't even get in to that. Some people have reported major problems and others say all the reports are blown out proportion. Who knows?
If there is somebody here that's on the inside can you please tell me the real story and shut everybody up. I don't want this to turn into a flame war I just want to hear from somebody with some real insider knowledge. I want to buy another PSD in a few years and just want to know my money will be well spent.

 

I don't think you are going to get a definitive response from an insider.

But, with that said, here's my take on a couple of things you bring up.

• There are bad 6.0s out there and some have been horrific. Most are not. It is basically a solid design.
• IMO The EGR Valve and variable vane turbo strategy have failed the original intend of the designers. In day to day use, creating more problems than they solved.
• Many issues seem to be regional in nature. No documentation here, just guts. It seems there is a lower percentage of troubled trucks in the S.W. than anywhere else in the country. Fuel quality / cetane issues? Maybe.
• It is my feeling that the 6.0 was to be an interim engine to take the Ford diesel market from the '03 emissions mandates to the '07 emissions mandates. I do not believe that is has been a failure in the sense that it was to take Ford diesel thru to 2,010. Which the 6.4 will. Then it will substantially change again....another planned 3 year engine.
• While I do not necessarily subscribe to the notion that the 6.4 is merely a modified 6.0...I do believe the 6.0 is the basis for it's design. An ehanced version, to be sure.
• The EPA continues to hammer at and is killing the affordable diesel industry at the same time the rest of the energy feds are trying to promote diesel design in cars, light commercial and light duty trucks....go figure.

No insider info here...just my observations.

 

for one i dont think you will get any solid information on the new power plant until its released.
for two the vt 365 (6.0)has been around since 2000 i think.
and it wont make 2007 emissions.and the ultra low sulfur fuel.

6.4 isnt realy a modified 6.0 there will be two turbos,common rail fuel system and im sure various others for the ultra low sulfur fuel.
it maybe the basic idea but not a modfied 6.0.
if it a whole redesign you and i will be paying for it.
as far as buliding it to meet standards from 2003 to 2007
no body building for 2010 standards. so it will be unrealistic to design that far ahead. of the three duramax,cummings,powerstroke there is not one that will meet 2010 emissions standard. thats why you cant buy a 12 valve and a lb7,lly or a 7.3,6.0 after 07.

 

the 6.0 is a Navistar design, International made the big investment (i'm sure Ford contributed). International has reaped the benefit of the sales of their design for many years (7.3 and 6.0). But if the 6.0 is living a short life, then International will be sucking hind tit. There is talk that ford would like to move away from Navistar. Ford has the facilities and existing Diesel Technology to develop their own engine, they already have multiple diesels in their European corral. The Talk about the 4.4/4.5/4.8 V^ is that it will be internally developed and manufactured not outsourced as is the Navistar. Maybe the 6.4 V8 will also. Keeping that in house has big payoffs if the engine is successful.

 

That brings up another question that somebody may be able to answer. How much will the 6.4tt option cost? If it's a short run engine design I'm thinking mighty high to recover their investment. I've seen some people post that they have already put down deposites on a new 2007 6.4tt SD, so they must have some idea.

 

the 6.4 option will cost about the same. the 365 has been in use since 2000. the 6.4 is going to be a bored and stroked 6.0. the same thing they did with the 6.9 to make the 7.3.

 

YUP, You hit hit just right on your first bullet, and maybe you should have stopped there?

The rest of what you say seems to just be speculation on your part.

Further, as far as EPA restrictions are concerned, you had best believe that Ford Engineers know and have known these requirements for some time. Even in the design of the 6.0 and in the upcoming 6.4. Ya know, these Enginers have the EPA requirements in front of them YEARS before the need to release a vehicle or engine design.

The EPA requirements are not an excuse for Engineers in the the reported reliability issues of the 6.0. DO YOU DISAGREE? Even if the EPA forced Ford into a redesign, Ford had several years to design and test the reiability of their options. This is just basic business for any automotive manufacturer. NOT??

The early release of the 6.4 is not only just due to EPA constraints, but rather and more importantly an attempt by Ford and Navistar to offer a truely competive product that has at least some degree of reliability. Ford simply can not withstand their warranty issues with the 6.0 any longer. (DUH?)

So Ford is going to do a new release for a new engine that is now "bullet proof"? (Watch the TV adds when it first comes out.) When was the last time you saw a 6.0 diesel add on TV? I haven't seen one in over a year! Ford does not want to promote or sell them, cause they know that every 6.0 they sell is additional liability for them.

(Sorry for saying that.)

Despite the fact that I and others here love our Ford trucks, Ford has a very significant and obvious reliability situation with certain 6.0 diesels. Moreover, these problems have existed since the intial indroduction of this engine and seem to continue even to the most recent release and to trucks that are for sale as '06 trucks today.

It seeems that when Ford has tried a patch to fix issues they have just caused more issues. The number of computer reflashes and the amount of revised parts and procedures confounds everbody on this forum as well as the poor overworked service technicians and service engineers that are trying to keep us 6.0 owners on the road.

If you have any theorys that says these problems are "regional" in nature or that the EPA is to blame for these Ford problems, I think we would all like to hear more about what you have to say.

Since you expressed you opinion. I'll express mine in a few statements:

Ford and Navistar broght a terible design in the 6.0 to the Ford product line.
a.) It is problematic and subject to various failures over it's entire career.
b.) It is unservicable from either a Ford support aspect or from a service technician aspect.


I can't make my response more "definitive" than what I have said. This is as "definitive" as I can make it.

Maybe an "INSIDER" can add to this or change my own opinion about what I see is happening here?

Yes, I expect to get jumped on here.

Everybody has an opinion as well.

 

The D'Max has a variable vane turbo and an EGR.

The 7.3 was able to meet emissions regs through the 2004 MY. The 6.0 was brought out in 2002 to answer the D'Max, not to meet EPA regs.

 

Well, Catfish_Man and jschira...I clearly stated that that these comments were my observations an certainly not insider information. Yet you attack as if I were preaching gospel.

Both of you guys have had an "in" for Ford for quite some time and you both condemn the 6.0 to oblivion. You are both totally blind to the fact that good ones exist.

I wouldn't know and could care less what Chevy has in their engine and just for the record Ford ads promoting the F-series diesels are displayed here on a regular basis.

You guys always cry foul while you embellish other's comments on their good trucks...accusing them of bleeding Ford Blue. I clearly acknowledge the existence of the bad ones have have for quite some time. Yet you and some others absolutely fail to recognize the majority (or any for that matter) as being good.

This was / is a baited thread for bashing purposes to start with. It it surely will end that way.

Why don't you and your buddies keep hammering away here on this thread. A dedicated bashing thread should keep you guys happy for awhile.

An insider changing your opinion? I doubt it. Closed minds are not typically open to enlightenment.

 

No I did't, so don't be making accusations you can't back up.

I was not flaming you, so don't get defensive here!!!

I think your original post was asking for "insider" information. RIGHT? Well, you want get this here!!

But you made in your original post some suppositions that I don't agree with and were unfounded in your own mind. (How did you figure that the EGR and other things were the whole cause of Ford's situation with the 6.0?)

So I told you where you were wrong in your suppositions and why.

You need to go back and read your original post and my post in context of what you posted.

I stand beside what I said, having owned a 6.0 for a while. I think others here would agree.

You are the one that opened the thread. You are the one that can substantiate your original (Questions?)

I stand behind what I said.

You are the one crying foul here!

The truth hurts does't it???






.

 

If that's the case than the 6.4L TT ought to be pretty damn bad. Cause the 7.3L was one hell of a motor. I can't say anything bad aginst the 6.0L ours has been real good.

 

No, I did not open the thread. Get your facts straight.

Nor did I state that "the EGR and other things were the whole cause of Ford's situation with the 6.0" Again, you embellish. Get your facts straight.

I did not ask for insider information. The original poster did. Again, get your facts straight.

You speak of truth? Start with facts. Then maybe you can speak of it.

 

Why can't we just all get along (neck)

 

This is not what I was looking for. I just wanted an informed answer on this whole switch to the 6.4tt thing not another 6.0 bashing thread. Seen to many and have even posted in a few of those already. Every new engine design has problems 6.0 is no different. Even the famed 7.3 that I own and love had a problem with blowby for years. Ford can't test an engine for every condition it may encounter in the real world. It's just how these things are end of story. Now does anybodyhave some helpful info that like works for Navistar or Ford. Maybe juniorf350 was it you that posted the pictures of the 6.4tt do you have an inside source that could answer my question? Maybe I'm wrong but you seem to know more than you're letting on.

 

I'm glad he didn't...he seems to have the ability to think with an open mind.

Of course the engineers know about the EPA regulations...I think it's almost common knowledge on this site. With GM releasing the duramax, Ford had to answer back with a superior engine. The VT365 is a solid engine...but Ford just did not have the time to properly test the engine after they were through with it. That's my speculation...seems to be the general consensus from everyone here.

I'd say any early release planned was/is due to competition, not warranty claims.

This doesn't make any sense. Their biggest selling engine...yet they do not advertise it, because they don't want to sell it? I'm suggesting to you a re-evaluation of what reality is.

No, no you aren't.

Proof?

I agree that ford was not prepared to deal with the events that occured after the 6.0L was introduced. Most seem to realize that it's mainly the dealerships, not Ford.

This statement was just to stir the pot. You know that, yet you come on here claiming to have an open minded opinion?
The VT365 engine is solid, and the 6.4TT will be as well. The 6.0L Ford came out with had a massive amount of hp over the stock Navistar engine, and was programmed to run at a higher RPM. Bringing an engine like this to the market so soon will arise problems.
I have seen some freak problems in these engines as well...but I've seen a brand new '06 Duramax choke and die after only a couple thousand kilometres on the odometer as well. Will I condemn it? No. In my whole hearted honest opinion, most of the people that drive these beasts are driving them like gassers. They start it up, and literally 15 seconds later, they romp on it. Diesels cannot be used like this. All the guys with the good diesels seem to be repeat diesel buyers, and know what to expect, and they treat it with respect, resulting in a good engine.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen some exceptions to this...but overall this seems to be the case.

Your opinion doesn't look to be changed. Ever.