GM had been doing the sales a full month before Ford got in on it.

I'm not saying the 6.0L is problem free...not at all. It's not hard to recognize that, infact, the 6.0L has been a very controversial engine for Ford. I'm debating the fact that the reason Ford is going the 6.4L route isn't entirely because of the 6.0L troubled past. It's all in my last post regarding CatFish_Man.

I'm sorry if I sound too 'Pro-Ford' for you...

 

We will never know Ford's true motivations for the 6.0 and 6.4. Probably a little of both, emissions and competition.

I went with a Cummins because of what it didn't have, an EGR, variable vane turbo and '07 emissions. It will take GM, Ford and Dodge a while to figure out the '07 emissions.

I still remember 1974 when stricter gas emission regs came into effect. Everyone tried to meet them without a cat, adn the '74 MY cars ran like crap. In '75, they bit the bullet and went to cats, so the '75s ran better.

I think the same thing will happend with the '07 diesels. I'm no psychic, but I predict '07 diesels will be a good year to stay away from.

 

This post did not yield the results I was hoping for. My long standing belief has been there is nothing wrong with the design of the 6.0, but with it's production. This seems to make sense because where some people are having many problems others are not. Some where along in it's manufacturing mistakes were made. With the oil leaks this could have been as simple as a torque wrench having the wrong setting or being out calibration. In the production push before the release of a new model this could be really bad. All of the other problems could be explained the same way not necessarily a bad torque wrench, but something just as mundane. The inside source I would like to hear from on this subject would be with Ford's warranty department. They track every warranty claim made and would have very detailed info such as the serial #s of the engines having the problems. I'm willing to bet that all the engines that have problems can be tracked back to certain production batches. This would explain the one posters observation that the problems appeared to be regional, not due to environmental conditions asociated with any region reasons but with Ford's shipping methods. This would also explain why like with my company would receive three troubled engines in one special order shipment and another company would have no problems with it's trucks ordered 2 months later. I beleive Ford is switching to the 6.4tt in 07 for many reasons the least of which is the emission standards. The main reason is to be able to distance themselves from the damaged rep of the 6.0 using the excuse of emission standards as a cover to avoid admitting liability. The 6.0 is a well designed engine but it's rep of having problems however unjustified makes it a hard sell for Ford.

 

Batgeek,

Forum did't yield results as I had wished also.

We are in agreement on a lot of points. Most important is the historical reliabilty issues of the 6.0.

I'd like to see an "insider" here as well. That's what the oppening post asked for!

Meanwhile, the rest of us seem to debate why Ford is introducing the 6.4 in place of the 6.0.

As I stated above, I believe the 6,0 is very capable of the horsepower and torque "wars". BUT!!, Ford quickly realized that Navistar had under designed the the engine in terms of maintainability and reliability.

So Ford was left with "patching" the engine by controlling computer "flashes" The most of which patches cut the designed torque and horsepower in order to preserve some kind of engine longevity. (Ford had a 100,000 mile warranty on the 6.0)

All this started back in '03 on the initial release of the 6.0. And many owners of the initial release in '03 say these trucks and engines are just a reliable and powerful as any. Some owners that put their trucks to test from the "git-go" experienced major situations in terms of what Ford said vs. what ownership experience was.

On the other hand, many having the initial relese still drive these trucks a just a daily driver. My own guess is that those satified with the initial release in '03 never pull to the capacity as listed in Ford sales literature?

So many Superduty owners with the 6.0 that pull near "rated capacity" seem to be the ones that are dissapointed in terms of engine reliability. And such ownership issues seem to run accross the board from the initial relese of the 6.0 to date. AM I WRONG?

Moreover I'd like to hear an "insider" say the the 6.0 can't meet the future emissions standards and be competive against Dodge or GM diesels.

I'd still like to know why after 4 years of the 6.0 that Ford plans the rollout of the 6.4?





That would be the only other reason for Ford going to the 6.4 is just like you said.

"The main reason is to be able to distance themselves from the damaged rep of the 6.0 using the excuse of emission standards as a cover to avoid admitting liability."

The only way the 6.0 can be competive in the torque/HP war is by chipping the engine. But it is pretty obvious that the Ford 6.0
can not stand that.


That's exactly what I said in my previous post!!!

Sorry to others that I might have offended.

 

Then stop speculating like the rest of us.

Read my previous post.

Navistar did not "under design" the engine. That is completely incorrect.
Read this... http://www.internationaldelivers.com/site_layout/engine/vt365detail.asp
...so now how do you figure Navistar "under designed" this engine???
Here, I'll make it easy:
Governed engine speed-2800 RPM
Peak hp- 230 @ 2600 RPM
Peak torque-620 @ 1400 RPM (who says V8's can't make as much low end as a Cummins?)
...so, this engine was designed perfectly fine for it's original intended use. Navistar has been receiving the benefits of a solid engine.

Ford didn't "patch" it up either. You're completely incorrect again. Ford modified the electronics to produce more hp, and slightly less torque, but did not properly test the engine before releasing it. This was due to the short amount of time they had, as the Duramax was already out. Competition, like I already said.

I'd like to see you post this exact same paragraph in the 6.0L forum. I dare you. You're making totally and completely unfounded assumptions. Nothing more.

It's pretty much been explained.

You stated earlier that the engine was capable of winning the hp, and torque wars, right in that exact same post! So now it's only capable with a module? Last I checked, the '05 6.0L spanked all the competition. Why do you think GM went to 360 hp?

 

Okay guys, Are you ready for the truth? I own a 2003 PSD & a 2005 PSD. Both are F550's with all the amenities. I have close to $100,000.00 invested in these trucks. They are my business trucks & I put over 100,000 a year on them. The 2003 was really pushed in advertising because of all the horsepower & torque (6.0),which is why I chose it over the 7.3 for that year. Bad mistake! I had owned 2 1999 7.3's previously. My first one was the best truck I have ever owned & I finally sold it with 350,000 plus miles on it . It is still going strong today. The 2nd 7.3 I put a Diablo 80 HSP chip & 4" Exhaust,K & N Cold Air Induction,all the goodies! Screwed that truck all up! I don't hotrod my trucks because I depend on them for my living & I am a retired diesel mechanic. Now, back to the 6.0's. The 2003 was a nightmare! When I first drove it, I loved it! Then came dealer after dealer across the country from Denver to Indiana. The mechanics @ the big name dealerships as well as your next door neighbor dealerships did not have the training or know how to fix them. Guess what? Ford itself did not know what to expect from these engines. After much down time for my business as well as expense for motels,food,& other things ...I finally bought a 2005 hoping that their mechanics had time to be properly trained by this time & also hoping that they had worked the bugs out of the engine. My oasis reports on this truck are as thick as the ford manual,downtime expenses etc. the same. If you want to know anything at all about the problems with these engines,I can give you some input on just about anything they've encountered with them. By the way, my whole family are diehard Ford people for generations!
I do not intend to speak for Ford but I do know that if they had'nt shelfed the 6.0,they would probably be heading for bankruptcy before long. The 6.4 is their chance to redeem themselves. Let's hope they can pull this one off!

 

Answer to initial poster's question:

Because technology advances, EPA restrictions increase, etc., etc.

International will develope a cleaner, more powerful, more efficient powerplant.

 

It was a corporate plot to bankrupt the company, upset customers, and create threads like this on enthusiast forums.

 

hahah...Well the last bit is true - I wonder if the first 2 will follow in its footsteps?

 

It truly must be a despicable plot...surely a plot hatched by Osama and his momma.

 

Well, Batgeek, I was the first responder and this was my very first sentence.

"I don't think you are going to get a definitive response from an insider."

Instead. You got no answers and I got stomped on for merely presenting my observations, which I clearly stated they were. Just observations.

A couple of folks took it upon themselves to trash what I said as if I had been speaking the gospel of Ford.

So went the thread.

I don't think a warranty insider would dare answer your questions in an open public forum. And if they were goofy enough to do so, would likely be attacked as soon as they hit the "submit post" button.

In addition, they would likely be fired if ever discovered by their superiors.

Good questions...just wrong time and certainly the wrong place.

I hate that it was my comments that seemed to be the catalyst to your thread going bad but, it was probably likely to happen anyway.

Your best shot at getting insider information may be to take a swing over at Flat Rate Tech.

Good luck.

 

"Observations", "opinions", "My $0.02". Spin it any way that you like. If you say something that is wrong or that others disagree with, you are going to get a negative response. Happens all the time to everyone on the board.

Grow up.

 

You’re right I should have never expected to get the answer I wanted form the person I wanted it from. The people with the answer would have never responded to the post. Ford is probably monitoring there computers and would send the Ford goon squad over to silence them if they saw any top secret company info being posted LOL. The bottom line Ford is switching to the 6.4tt because they can and like the government and my wife they may not even know why they do what they do. With this post I close my involvement with this thread, thankyou and good night.<O</O

 

[QUOTE=jschira Grow up.[/QUOTE]


Coming from you that's pretty funny.

No reason to engage or promote your personal attack agenda here.

But hey, have a nice day anyway.

 

Probably the most accurate statement applied to this thread since it's inception.

This thread is likely dead.