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can a 460 out run a stock hemi

  #31  
Old 01-18-2006, 09:02 AM
jimlj
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The original post asked if a 460 can outrun a STOCK Hemi. I suppose if you added stock in front of the 460, and continued with the 460 in a ton 4X4 and your Hemi in a ton 2 wheel drive, the Hemi would win.

My experience with the dreaded hemi is in a new ton 4X4 four door pickup with 11 miles on it when I started driving it. I compared it with my 79 4X4 extended cab, with a 71 Lincoln motor. Like I said, I never raced them but a seat of the pants feel tells me my 460 will out do the Dodge. Id guess that the trucks weigh close to the same (I think the Ford is heavier since it has metal that is not transparent in the body). Ford no longer builds truck with a 460 in it so stock side by side, apple to apple comparison is not possible. If you compare similar size and weight trucks, I think a 460 will hold its own. If you want to race cars, put a 460 in a Mustang and race the new Charger and see how that comes out.
 
  #32  
Old 01-18-2006, 11:46 AM
oldmansimek
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Raced my buddys new charger yesterday not the big hemi but the other one. With my pickup blew him away up to about 95 thats all my truck has 4.10 and 38's. 460 has about 575 horse.
 
  #33  
Old 01-18-2006, 05:04 PM
stngh8r
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Question

Originally Posted by ron_29_1973
well these 460's im talking about are not the newer efi junk as for rpm i have turned 5000 before. for those who has never had the good 460 1968 to 1971 don't know how good they are. it's a whole different 460 from the 1972 to 1997 you would just have to own one to know what im talking about.
what does you truck run in the 1/4? Any dyno #'s? just curious
 
  #34  
Old 01-18-2006, 06:03 PM
ron_29_1973
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Originally Posted by stngh8r
what does you truck run in the 1/4? Any dyno #'s? just curious

its not a truck it's a 1970 lincoln mark 3 but at 5200 pounds its like a 4x4 truck i have never run it in the 1/4 mile. but its very strong and all stock just the timing is set up more than stock that makes a big difference over stock settings i know it out ran my friends all stock 1991 mustang gt .so it would have to be good in the 1/4 mile there is no drag strips here to try it out. all i know is that it will **** and get it its funny to see people's faces when i take them at the lights. for everbody that wants a strong 460 all stock 1968 to 1971 is the key.
 
  #35  
Old 01-20-2006, 04:02 PM
1969fordguy
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Its not that I doubt you Ron, but with a 2.80 gear all I can imagine you doing is spinning. When a great deal of torque is applied the tire begins to spin and the car slowly moves forward. This condition is made worse when the car is a land barge. If your car does not spin, then you don't have much power or you have some killer tires maybe slicks or DOT drag radials?

I do, however, agree with you that those are the prime years for factory performance bigblocks.

After re-reading this it sounds a bit harsh. I love old fords and especially bigblocks. Maybe your buddy needs to tune up his GT...
 
  #36  
Old 01-20-2006, 04:07 PM
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Ron is right. I had a 1970 LTD Brougham 2DR with a 460 4BBL.

It was quite a suprising vehicle (especially to the others that just thought, oh yeah, another lead sled.) It looked like granddaddy's car, but that is all. I left it that way, with the full vinyl top.

I did do a little work to it. Opened up the heads and exhaust, gave it a better intake and carb and did change it over to Ford's electronic ignition.

You could roll down the highway and tromp down on it and it would leave two of the prettiest black marks behind it. I had at the speedo peg of 120 and there was still plenty more. With the 2.85 gears and all that low end torgue, it would jump on the best of them and most of the time leave them packing. I loved jumping the hemi roadrunners (about 600 pounds lighter) and roasting them.

Just to have it back. A dang drunk took it away from me or I would probally have it today.
 
  #37  
Old 01-20-2006, 06:44 PM
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Pardon, but rear gears that have a ratio of around 2.8 to 1 are economy or mileage gears that transmit relatively little power to the ground-at 1:1 in fourth engine torque is multiplied only 2.8 times. "Quick"-i.e. fast accelerating gears-would be more like 3.7 to 4.1 or more. Quarter mile cars set up for acceleration on high revving motors would be up to 4.88's or even in the fives. The lighter cars that you're comparing to, stock, will also have better gearing than 2.8 to 1 in the rear diff. A pickup that had 2.8 rear gears, even with a 460, would be worthless for towing any appreciable weight. The numerically higher gears are much better for tire spinning at nearly any reasonable speed, and are much better at accelerating a car quickly.

A 5200 lb car (much heavier than a half ton 4wd pickup) with 2.8 rear gears, even with a pretty ferocious 460, would be far from sports car performance. With a 460 that has 365 "1970 horsepower" it would be slow. I dare say if you think such a car would be a fast accelerator you haven't raced anyone. A lighter car with almost any type of V8 made by anybody would be quicker. Keep in mind the cars you are comparing it to are around 1600 lbs lighter, have the same or more horsepower (the new cars have more when you consider the 1970 horsepower rating was measured differently than it is now; a 365 hp 1970 460 would be putting out around 300-320 with the same measurements as today) and much better gearing than 2.8 to 1.

The smaller motor with superior gearing will be putting more power to the ground to move less weight.

Like I said, the 460's a great motor, but you can't be handicapped that much with extreme weight and poor gearing and still win, or even keep up very well.

If you are out accelerating anybody but old aircooled Volkwagen Beetles, then you are mistaken about the gearing and weight of your car. I repeat for emphasis; a 365 Hp 5200 lb car with 2.8 gears will be slow. I can't imagine a worse combination of gearing and weight than what you have. I am not meaning to be insulting, but something doesn't add up.
 

Last edited by 309Ford; 01-20-2006 at 07:00 PM.
  #38  
Old 01-20-2006, 08:15 PM
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If the original 426 Hemi roadrunner, with considerably more horsepower and very nearly the same torque as the 460 LTD, much better breathing at high revs than the 460, with lighter weight than the LTD, along with almost certainly better gearing (no Hemi roadrunners were offered with gears anywhere near as poor as 2.8's) lost to a 460 powered LTD, it must have had two of its sparkplug wires pulled off.

C'mon, guys, I'm a Ford fan from way back, but some of the statements made here make my eyes roll back in my head. A stock or nearly stock 460 is out of its league against the original big block 426 Hemi powering a much lighter car. The original Hemi outbreathes the 460 due to its valve configuration. Stock for stock, or even when both are optimized to their full potential. The original Hemi head flows like mad-that's why it's a high revving engine.

The 460 is a better truck motor, certainly, than the original Hemi, or the newer semi-hemi. But some of the statements made about the speed of stock 460's pushing heavy unaerodynamic boats with crappy gears are sorta the equivalent of making water run uphill. But then, our recollection of how great we used to be always increases with time, doesn't it? I'd like to see a verified time slip over the quarter mile from one of these undergeared, overweight 460 powered boats. Any takers?
 

Last edited by 309Ford; 01-20-2006 at 08:23 PM.
  #39  
Old 01-20-2006, 10:13 PM
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[QUOTE=309Ford] But then, our recollection of how great we used to be always increases with time, doesn't it? QUOTE]

What are you saying?
You mean I wasent the best looking, strongest guy with the fastest car and the best girl in high school?
 
  #40  
Old 01-20-2006, 10:41 PM
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lol...hey now...don't ruin a man's dreams...my grandpa does that alot "i used to have a 48 ford...man that flathead would fly...it would outrun anything i pulled up beside" lol...i hope someday i can tell stories to my kids about those old cars i used to drag race..."there wasn't a thing on the road that could touch me" (isn't it great getting old?)
 
  #41  
Old 01-22-2006, 04:43 AM
stngh8r
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Talking

well, i believe the thread was orginally intended to compare 460 powered trucks to newer "Hemi" trucks? Given the language of the original post and the fact this is a 'truck' forum. I dunno, i could be wrong.

But, since we are now talking about 460 cars. I played with the HP/1/4 mile calculator a little just to get a ball park figure.

A 5300lb car (including driver?)
would need 362.6 engine HP (20% drivetrain loss) or 290.1 RWHP to run [email protected] that is considering that all those 360Horses are there and running strong. This is very respectable for a car of its size, but as previously pointed out, hardly a 'sports car' beater.

The MPH is much more crucial on these calculators than the ET, so the ET could be the most inaccurate portion of this little test.

Just for comparison. My truck(see sig. for details) runs [email protected], but keep in mind trucks are generally going to MPH much lower than a car due to the increased air drag vs. a car.

HP calculator says...........................
-5600lb(w/ me in it)
[email protected]
=277.2rwhp and 346.5 flywheel HP
FYI for comparison-->My actual dyno #s on a 100+degree day were 264rwhp, once again the increased drag probly has scewed the calculators results a small bit and possibly the much better air during track time!

http://www.fastcoolcars.com/hp_calculator.htm
 

Last edited by stngh8r; 01-22-2006 at 04:47 AM. Reason: inaccuracy
  #42  
Old 01-22-2006, 11:50 AM
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I made an error, It was not 2.85 gears, but 3.55's. Had to go back and look at the old receipts where I had it fixed.
 
  #43  
Old 01-22-2006, 01:14 PM
ron_29_1973
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Originally Posted by 309Ford
Pardon, but rear gears that have a ratio of around 2.8 to 1 are economy or mileage gears that transmit relatively little power to the ground-at 1:1 in fourth engine torque is multiplied only 2.8 times. "Quick"-i.e. fast accelerating gears-would be more like 3.7 to 4.1 or more. Quarter mile cars set up for acceleration on high revving motors would be up to 4.88's or even in the fives. The lighter cars that you're comparing to, stock, will also have better gearing than 2.8 to 1 in the rear diff. A pickup that had 2.8 rear gears, even with a 460, would be worthless for towing any appreciable weight. The numerically higher gears are much better for tire spinning at nearly any reasonable speed, and are much better at accelerating a car quickly.

A 5200 lb car (much heavier than a half ton 4wd pickup) with 2.8 rear gears, even with a pretty ferocious 460, would be far from sports car performance. With a 460 that has 365 "1970 horsepower" it would be slow. I dare say if you think such a car would be a fast accelerator you haven't raced anyone. A lighter car with almost any type of V8 made by anybody would be quicker. Keep in mind the cars you are comparing it to are around 1600 lbs lighter, have the same or more horsepower (the new cars have more when you consider the 1970 horsepower rating was measured differently than it is now; a 365 hp 1970 460 would be putting out around 300-320 with the same measurements as today) and much better gearing than 2.8 to 1.

The smaller motor with superior gearing will be putting more power to the ground to move less weight.

Like I said, the 460's a great motor, but you can't be handicapped that much with extreme weight and poor gearing and still win, or even keep up very well.

If you are out accelerating anybody but old aircooled Volkwagen Beetles, then you are mistaken about the gearing and weight of your car. I repeat for emphasis; a 365 Hp 5200 lb car with 2.8 gears will be slow. I can't imagine a worse combination of gearing and weight than what you have. I am not meaning to be insulting, but something doesn't add up.
well i see you don't know **** about these car's i had no reason to lie buddy i know what these cars will do and not do we have owned them for years
 
  #44  
Old 01-22-2006, 01:25 PM
ron_29_1973
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Originally Posted by 1969fordguy
Its not that I doubt you Ron, but with a 2.80 gear all I can imagine you doing is spinning. When a great deal of torque is applied the tire begins to spin and the car slowly moves forward. This condition is made worse when the car is a land barge. If your car does not spin, then you don't have much power or you have some killer tires maybe slicks or DOT drag radials?

I do, however, agree with you that those are the prime years for factory performance bigblocks.

After re-reading this it sounds a bit harsh. I love old fords and especially bigblocks. Maybe your buddy needs to tune up his GT...


no the mustang was all stock running smooth if you have never had one of these first lincoln's then you can't see what im talking about. they are a real sleeper hell i have a 76 mercury marquis with a 72 460 that out ran his 87 corvett. and i have it on cam corder because i knowed no one would belive it i had my gf film the whole thing the 460 in my mercury is all stock only the timeing is set up more than stock that makes a big difference in these eng's.
 
  #45  
Old 01-22-2006, 01:44 PM
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No need for the language. And yes, I do know something about these kind of cars or I wouldn't have questioned their acceleration.

Extreme weight + poor gearing + modest stock horsepower = slow car.

Always. Enough said. I'm done with the topic.
 

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