you've cut your effective gear ratio to around 3.0 to 1, instead of 3.73. Most Ford trucks with this gear ratio are rated "Towing not recommended".

 

I don't think 4000 rpm's is that high. I had a class c motorhome with the Dodge 440 and 4.11 rear end and at 65 it was at 3000 rpm's and when the 3 speed auto was shifted to 2nd it ran 4000 rpm's to pull hills, and this was an overhead valve motor. I put many trouble free miles on the this motorhome and i know it's still running strong today.

 

To be even more accurate, the 2000 to 2004 V10s like the one I have are rated to make 400lb-ft at 1900rpm. This means that 94% of the engine's peak torque is available at or under 2000rpm. The other measly 25lb-ft comes at 3250rpm which gives a pretty flat torque curve on the engine's output graph.

The 5.4L V8 has similar characteristics.

Not many of the newer gas engines goinginto trucks nowadays can claim that kind of torque availablity but this is exactly what a towing/hauling engine should be doing. Most of them are only making about 85% of their peak torque at/under 2000rpm.

Incidently, I have the 3.73 axle and often tow lighter loads ranging from 4000lbs to 7000lbs and with this kind of weight my truck doesn't worl hard at all. The engine spends 95% of the time on highway in OD & 3rd. In third the rpm are about 2800 and occasionally it drops to 2nd gear on some long hill to maintain highway speeds. Never had any trouble with overheating etc and I enjoy towing with it.

 

Dodge Has The 6.1 Hemi Out In The Jeep Gc Srt-8, I Am Sure Trucks Are On The List Also. Ford Was Going To Replace The V-10 With The Huricane V-8 (hemi Eater), But That Is On Hold. Know Matter How Much Hp A V-8 Produces, Low End Tork Is What Is Desired In A Truck Motor. Dollar For Dollar The V-10 Would Be Hard To Beat. Ford Should Put The Huricane In The F-150 And Keep The V-10 In The Superduty. Then They Would Spank Dodge All The Way Around!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The Dodge 6.1 sounds good-it makes 400lb-ft peak. But I picked up a brochure for the 2006 Dodge Charger and it has a torque/hp graph for that engine in it. Turns out it makes all the torque way too high in the rpm level to be much use for towing.

Very steep curve-I'll have to go look to be sure but if I recall it's at only about 300lb-ft at 2000rpm which sucks for anything but street racing.....but then again that's what most of the Dodge Ram buyers are interested anyways!! At any rate it won't pose much of a competetive threat for the 6.8L which makes 400lb-ft at only 1900rpm. And that's the 3-valve version. The new ones are probably even better!

Merry Christmas all!

 

I have a 2002 Ford brochure for the F and E series and the V10's torque curve (if it can be believed) shows 80% of the peak torque at 1000 RPM!

That's 340 ft/lbs at only 1000 RPM. A 6.1L making 300lbs/ft at twice the RPM?

And that's the old 2-valver. Anyone have a Ford torque curve for the 3-valver? Or are they purposely being closed-mouthed about it? As in, one day they are going to publish the REAL power ratings for it and blow everyone away?

 

Ok, I found the graph for the 6.1L. Some of the posts at the Mopar forums seem to indicate this engine may show up in the Ram HDs. It's rated at 425hp@6000rpm & 420lb-ft@4800rpm. But, the low rpm power is crap.

At 2000rpm it makes 130hp & 340lb-ft. At 3000rpm it's at 225hp & only 360lb-ft.

Compared to the 2v V10 like I have which makes at 2000rpm 160hp & 400lb-ft and at 3000rpm the 6.8 is at 245hp & 415lb-ft!

In fact the 2 valve V10 makes more HP and Torque than the 6.1 Hemi all the way up to 4000rpm! And who the heck wants to keep the engine at 4000rpm for towing? I'm sure Dodge will tune the engine so it makes more power at low rpm if they decide to make a truck version but I don't think Ford has anything to worry about. Then again, it's hard to make up for displacement when it comes to torque so I doublt the low-rpm torque can be improved enough to compete with the V10, especially the new 3 valves.

Dodge will advertise high HP #s to get the attention of guys who want a truck for show and bragging but the real world performance will still suck for towing compared to the 6.8 and even the 8.1 from GM. These are the last 2 gas engines that make real towing power at low and useful engine speeds.

 

I have a class C E-450 with the V10 2valve (2004 chassis) I beleive I am in the 454 or so rear end range and if I drive it well it pulls great and rarely kicks down. I have only locked out the tranny once in the mountains. It ain't no 7.3 PSD 6 speed like I traded in but it's OK once I learned how to drive it. I would like to try a new 3 valve for comparison. Scotty.

 

Not to mention that with that engine in a Charger, it will cost you another 8k over the regular Hemi so the price will be considerably higher in a truck as well.
30k for a R/T 5.7 Hemi
38k for a SRT8 6.1 Hemi
Some of that price diff is other stuff but the biggest change is the motor.

 

Ya gotta love that flat torque curve....http://makinhay.net/rides/SDuty/dyno-2001V10.xls

 

As some here know, I have been looking for a V10 Manual to test for some time without success. I also know that the V10 is supposedly to "come alive" after break-in. I don't own one and haven't found one yet to test drive. I have tested a new V10 automatic and found as several others have, that it lacks that punch that is supossed to happen after break-in.

I took the Dodge 5.7 2500 manual out for a drive yesterday. I didn't expect much as this is thier entry engine. It was substantially quicker than the Ford V10 auto (as well as substantially quicker than the Dodge auto). The point is that the 5.7 without that wimpy automatic trans behind it does some serious *** kickin'. In addition, it shifted surprisingly well for a heavy duty truck. The V10 in the Ford has the edge, no doubt, with the auto, but I'm not so sure about the manual.

The 6.1 was originally developed for the truck line, was shelved, and when resurected it was put in the cars because that is where their sales were lacking. The 6.1 as it was originally tuned, was a torque monster, not a horsepower motor. When it hits, it will cause havoc.

I would love to try both the Ford and Dodge manual back-to-back. I am expecting changes in Ford's interior and Dodge's engine lineup for '07. So I wait.....

 

I doubt it'll cause havoc. It's not a big engine and I don't see it being a "torque-monster". I'm sure Dodge will tune it to make more torque at lower rpms but as I've already said-in it's present form it makes 17% less torque at 2000rpm than the old 2v 6.8L. The new 3v V10 opens even a wider gulf in low-rpm torque.

I don't think it can "tuned" to the point where it will beat the Ford v10 in a magazine towing match. Too much of a difference in displacement to overcome.

I do think DOdge will tweak it so that the PEAK HP/tork numbers are higher than the V10 and hope some people fall for it, but guys who buy 3/4 and 1 ton pickups aren't stupid enough to fall for that. At least the guys who hang out here aren't from what I've seen. I mean who really cares if a 6.1 Hemi Ram 2500 makes and extra 15hp & 10lb-ft of tork at 6000rpm??

BTW-my 2003 F250 4wd V10 will absolutley dust a Ram 2500 4wd hemi zero to sixty and 1/4 mile-no contest. I've done it before a few times to a buddy I ride with. Both trucks being autos with 600/700lb atvs in the bed of each. Ram 1500s are probably a different story but then again they weigh about 2000lbs less than my truck does.

 

Besides, it's a Dodge.

 

Actually, the V10's were introduced in the E series at the very beginning of model year 1997. 1996 was the last year for the venerable 460 V8. My van was ordered in August of '96 and came in September with the V10. A little shy and a long time 460 user, I was afraid the V10 wouldn't hold its own. I soon learned otherwise.

 

As I mentioned, the V10/auto will beat the Dodge 5.7 auto in a 3/4 ton truck. I have driven these configurations. I'm quite sure that the Dodge 5.7/manual will beat the Ford V10/auto. Unfortunately I have still to try the V10/manual. I think the 5.7/manual in the Dodge does so much better is that the Dodge computer uses "torque management" to restrict the delivery of torque to the automatic, probably to protect it. Try it and come back.