i'm with yard bird i dont think air being there all along just pops up from no where.

 

i agree, and I dont believe driving 10 miles on side streets without the trailer brakes could boil the fluid either. There are just to many stories of this issue. Apparently in the extreme cases the ECU, MC and ABS unit was replaced.

She is faxing me the "new" TSB right now. I cant wait to see what it says...

 

TSB# 18724 - 2005 F150 Low Brake Pedal

 

Heh - I remember the thread in Yardbird's first link. I had bought mine maybe a month before, and was getting nervous. I even put a link on my CrownVic website at the time. So far, my brakes have been fine... luckily...

 

Picked it up. The dealer assured me they bled the brakes. Doesnt feel any different, but I havent had the to the floor experience yet. It was intermittent.

On the paperwork it states:

Concern: Customer complains brake pedal goes to floor.

Cause: Road Tested

Correction: None. Could not duplicate customer concern.

Thats it! If they had bled the system and followed the TSB would it not be on the paper work? Looks to me they did NOTHING after all. After being assured by the Service Diretor they had spent some time on it...

 

greg the dealer is doing something fishy. go take a look at your truck look for the bleed screw on the back of the caliper. if there is fresh brake fluid around it they did bleed it. if it is dry and covered in brake dust. then they shafted you.

 

Air in the lines causes a spongy pedal. Pedal hitting the floor on braking is catastrophic loss of pressure somewhere in the system, just as if you had opened a bleeding valve at one of the four corners. I am concerned about the master cylinders on these things. Even though my cap was replaced, the new one still leaks fluid on hard braking. This means i am still losing line pressure at some point, which IS NOT good. I'm wondering if the entire master cylinder assembly is faulty, either with the valving inside or even the way the cap seals, or fails to seal, the opening.

Anybody know if these are carry over units from previous generation, or is it a new design?

 

I just got underneeth the truck and see NO signs of any oily fingerprints, scuffed bolt heads, no fluid anywhere. No fluid under the rubber bleed valve covers, not a spec of fluid or darker color on anything on the front end. This a-hole up apparently straight up lied to me about bleeding the brakes! I cant even begin to think what I am going to say to this guy tomorrow... Wont be taking the truck back there. To bad too cause thats where I have bought 4 Ford trucks over the last 10 years or so.

The pedal does seem to travel quite a ways down without hard braking happening. I am going to go lock the brakes up from speed in a parking lot on the way home and get the ABS activated and see what happens.

I was thinking the same thing, something with the way the cap seals and/or the MC is just a POS.

Problem apparently not solved.

 

I called a dealer out recently about one of the lot attendants off-roading with my truck during the first service. Pointed out physical evidence and let him feel the sudden pulling to the right that this a-hole caused on my truck. At first he thought i was full of it, until i demonstrated everything. You go in there with everything you just said, maybe even demand they bleed the brakes in front of you. I severely doubt that the technician would wipe up any brake fluid and remove all traces of his presence under your vehicle.

And then we may need to start a mass movement to Ford questioning the MC's on these things. Mine too lost pressure on moderate braking, with migration to the floor experienced while holding it at a redlight being my main concern. Have you noticed any traces of fluid on the external surface of your MC? usually on the frontal aspect of the unit, most noticeable around the ridge joining the upper and lower parts of the fluid resevoir.

 

Havent inspected that yet, I am goint to do the full look in the daylight tomorrow...

My truck is pulling to the right now too. I am going to check tire pressures in the morning. Why dont service departments do this stuff for every car that comes in? I had a Nissan and that service department was awesome man. Every trip free wash job, extrmely helpful, kept old parts to show you what happened etc... How are some service departments good and some BAD.

I spent 6 years in the service dept. marketing industry and still have no clue what these guys are capable of.

 

A few notes after inspecting:

Doesnt look like they were bled to me unless they are the cleanest mechanics ever... Will not be taking it back to that dealer.

There are very small droplets of fluid all over the top of the reservoir on the master cylinder. It appears to me fliud is coming out of the cap at pressure. I cleaned it off and will check it again after some more driving this weekend. This is definitely weird. Also, it appears the dealer may have topped off the brake fluid, ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP OF THE RESERVOIR. It looks over filled to me...

So far no to the floor, the brakes are strong but seem a little squishy and the pedal does move farther down the longer you hold it.

If I get more fluid out of the cap this weekend it will go back next week for the MC replacement.

Thanks for everybodys input so far.

 

ReForder are you still having issues with the brakes? When I first got my truck, I looked at/around the master cylinder reservior and saw drops of brake fluid around the cap. They replaced the cap and lo and behold it still leaked, and I noticed the brakes were starting to get very spongy and once or twice the pedal even went to the floor like you all described. Well I then demanded they replace the master cylinder because something was clearly wrong, they agreed. After they replaced my entire master cylinder/brake booster assembly, no more leaks and no more spongy pedal. Now the pedal stays up were as before I had to pump the brakes often to keep the pedal up. I think its time for a new master cylinder/brake booster. Dont take risks when it comes to stopping your vehicle, its not worth it.

 

Since you have bought 4 trucks at that dealer try talking to the owner. Make sure you document everything like the dry bleeders and caps with pictures. Call the district rep also.

Just because they can not duplicate a problem does not mean it does not exist. I had a "catch" in my steering wheel that went to the dealer half a dozen times. I finally insisted upon seeing the steering wheel disassembled. I spotted the problem in less than 10 seconds, -a mismachined bearing. It was replaced and everything was fine afterward. The vehicle had a crooked seat that went back for adjustment several times. They ground out slots for the bolts etc. I finally took a look myself and spotted a badly installed rubber bushing in the swivel mechanism. I yanked it out by hand in the dealers lot and went in for a replacement. 10 minutes later it was fixed but the seat had to be realigned due to the slots cut in the mounting plates. Another time I had a transmission that was locking up. The transmission went back into the shop many times and was torn down and rebuilt three times. They finally got that right. The same vehicle had a problem with the engine and would lose power and miss etc. I had it into the shop numerous times with no trouble found. I replaced all of the engine controls myself and disconnected the computer. Ford eventually confessed to having a problem with the thick film ignition module that was the exact description of the problem I had. Fortunately or unfortunately it was fixed at a cost of about $500 to me that I never recovered. They even wanted over $500 labor for a 30 minute job on one of my vehicles recently. They said it took over three hours to do the job. I did it in less than 30 minutes in my driveway with homeowner grade tools. Dealer service departments seem to be staffed by idiots.

 

My brakes did this at 700 miles (04 lariat 4x4 5.4). Went to floor repeatedly, but I had stopping power as they were heading for the floor. At a light I would have to keep letting the pedal up as it hit the floor and reapply. Got it home and later that day they worked fine (Sunday). Monday I cautiously drove to dealer and they worked fine. Dealer did absolutely nothing but call Ford techline who told them to check for water in the ABS connector (At this point never even driven in rain). No water was found so ford told dealer to release to customer (Not very happy about this). Now approx. 10 months later and have driven torrential rains, have 8200 miles and it has not happened again. Never know when it may go again, hopefully not when towing my boat. I called Ford and filed a complaint with NHSTA. Not one person from Ford ever called. It seems like this problem may possibly be computer/ABS related (spurious release signals). I know alot have had master cylinders replaced, but this was not done on mine and it hasn't happened again. I guess people have to die for Ford to do anything about this problem. Good luck.

 

I am a female so that's one strike against me from the start. I have a 2004 F-150 that was bought new, and currently has 38,000 miles on it. I SWEAR TO YOU when I say "at 35,900 miles, the brakes started acting up. At first it seemed like a caliper was stuck on the front driver's side. It smoked and smelled of burned rubber very bad. I took it in to the dealership and they found nothing wrong. Less that 100 miles later, I went to brake at a stop light and the brake pedal literally went all the way to the floor. Exactly every other time that pushed the brake pedal it would go flat to the floor. I took it back to the dealership and they replaced the master cylinder. ONE WEEK LATER, it started doing it again. They replaced the master cylinder AGAIN. Another week, same thing. I took it back in and they decided that it was actually the master cylinder push rod wasn't adjusted properly. They adjusted it. Today - 3 weeks later - I almost killed myself when I tried to stop and once again the pedal went straight to the floor with no braking!! I am furious! I love Ford trucks, but I am at my wit's end. Luckily they have been still covering under warranty because of it being the same problem over & over again. My truck is at the shop right now, and I haven't heard what it could possibly be this time.

Please tell me someone knows more than the Ford Techs and can help me guide them in the right direction. I have saved all of my service slips that shows each of the jobs were performed.

Is it possible that I have a LEMON??? Thanks to anyone that can help!!