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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

1948-1960: 1949/1950 VIN # Cut off

 
  #751  
Old 10-27-2011, 07:20 PM
walt460
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Bed on my F1

Just FYI, the bed on my truck has raised panels. Cab date code is September 9, 1949, unit number 1013, and on the list of items that the builder said he purchased purchased, most all are trim items, the only body parts are the bumpers and some used running boards, so it could be that the balance of my truck is original sheet metal.
 
  #752  
Old 10-27-2011, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by walt460 View Post
mtflat,

Thanks once again!

A lot of magic in that September 9th build date, but that is another story.
I got the December 9, 1949 unit #1013 info from some old papers that came with the truck when I bought it. Info was written by hand, on an old piece of notebook paper, along with a phone number that has no area code. The notes appear to indicate that the individual purchased a complete Ford F1 truck without an engine or transmission.

I just got to ask; Is there any way to go from the September 9, 1949 build date and the unit# of 1013 to get the VIN # of my truck?

Also, if the cab was built in September of 1949......does that mean it is a 1950 cab?

Thanks again,

Walt
In a word, no. We can't back track to figure out the original serial number based on date and unit number. For a couple of reasons.

1. Ford issued serial numbers in blocks to assembly plants so you might have two trucks with consecutive serial numbers, one with an earlier date of assembly at one plant and the other with a later date of assembly from another plant.
2. the data we've collected isn't complete enough to assign missing numbers based on date of assembly even tho we've collected several hundred numbers.

You have a 49 truck - at the time Ford was using the calendar year as model year..... that said, some states didn't assign a title until it was purchased. Your's appears to have been purchased in Dec '49 so it is a '49 truck. I'm not aware of Ford selling trucks without engine/trans, but I suppose its possible - just haven't heard of it.

And to answer your last question, I can't say for sure but you probably have a complete truck where somebody lost the title and substituted one from a larger F6 truck. Michigan didn't care and issued a current title without investigating what it really was. This was common a few years ago, but doesn't fly now.
 
  #753  
Old 10-27-2011, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimmy49Ford View Post
Hello all. I know the thread started several years ago, but I thought I'd put my truck's info into the mix:

VIN: 97HC230432
Firewall Stamping: 7SP18H1417854
Raised Sides on Box

I got the truck with no engine or transmission, but believe it was a flat 6 with floor shifted manual trans.

I was told it was a 1950 when I bought it (without a title) so I had it titled it as a 1950 with the state of MN. I've come to believe since then that it is a 1949 based on the production sequence. If someone can interpret the firewall number, it may say for sure. The VIN is the same on the frame (passenger side forward of the front axle), the glove box door, and the fire wall plate. The plate also has the letters "SP" in the area labeled "Branch". My assumption is that this means it was built at the St. Paul plant (where they currently build the Ford Ranger pickup)? If anyone has any insight, I'd be much obliged. Thanks!

Jim
Thanks Jim - this thread is current even tho it's several years old.

Your serial number is for a '49 half ton 6 cylinder truck

The firewall stamping says it was: 7 SP 18H 1417854
Meadow Green
Built in St Paul MN
August 18th

1417854 would be unit number but that's a lot more characters than we usually see.
 
  #754  
Old 10-28-2011, 08:43 AM
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When built

mtflat,

I guess I confused you about build date and configuration, let me clear that up.

The notes I got with my truck when I bought it in 2008 are from when the builder bought the truck, some time prior to November of 2005 when he titled it in Florida. So the December 9, 1949 date is a note taken down by the person who bought it out of a field in Georgia. He must of tried decoding the stampings on the firewall and just gotten the month wrong.

It had no engine or trans when he bought it, which was in Georgia some time prior to when he titled it in November of 2005. I am sure it had an engine and trans when Ford built it in September of 1949.

It is clear that the VIN on my title does not belong to my truck. I am just attempting to see if I can somehow find the correct VIN for my truck. Is there any other place on the frame or body where Ford would stamp the VIN? (besides the passenger-side frame rail by the front axle, the firewall plate, and the inside of the glove box plate)

Thanks,

Walt
 
  #755  
Old 10-28-2011, 09:42 AM
mtflat
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Hi Walt,
That clears things up - I was under the impression the December note was from the original purchaser.

Unfortunately those 3 locations are the only places the serial number is found. Any other numbers you will come across are part or production numbers for that specific piece.

One other possibility but a very slim one is a buck tag under the seat. Ford used paper for the build/buck tags, so they're usually long gone by now IF your plant even used one.
But even if you do locate it, they don't normally have the serial number included.

The two J dates I have for '49 range between 239,000 and 250,000 so that's as close as I can come to backtracking it.
But, it could also be a September '50 truck. In that case I have three other J dates for 50 that range from 461,000 to 479,000

There just weren't any variations from 49-50 that would help you pin it down closer... wish I could help you get closer, but I'm at a dead end.
Tim
 
  #756  
Old 10-28-2011, 12:55 PM
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mtflat,
Tim,

Thanks, I have to agree.

I have contacted the individual that I purchased the truck from back in 2008 to see if they can go back to the individual that built the truck in 2005 to get any additional info that may be available.

If I hit a dead-end, with getting additional information, I am not sure I can go ahead with my plans to register my truck in Nevada. They will want to see the VIN on the frame and they may know that the VIN on my Michigan, and the old Florida title, does not match a F-1 pickup. In fact, the VIN on my title is not correct any 1949 F series as it has 98PTH397604 shown.

This does not leave me with any good options. Maybe just to keep the truck registered in Michigan, and make a plate with the VIN from the title stamped into it and weld that to the frame on the passenger side just to the rear of the GM front clip. At least that way the truck will have numbers that match my title.

Any other ideas anyone?

Walt
 
  #757  
Old 10-28-2011, 01:55 PM
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I would suggest gathering up what info you can, and keep it handy just in case the NV dmv asks. Otherwise I would let sleeping dogs lie. The plus on your end is that it's passed the biggest hurdles in Florida and Michigan, so that should say something. If it received a title in two states already with nobody calling to say it was stolen and put through a chop shop, I would say they shouldn't have an issue in NV. However, you'll likely end up paying certain filing fees to correct the current title to show the proper vin. Here in MN, if the clip was cut, and a different one welded on, it becomes a "reconstructed" vehicle, and a different title may be issued. If you have no intentions of selling anytime soon, it may not be a big problem. But after an amount of time, you'll be considered a NV resident, and so the tabs will have to be renewed in NV, and that may pose a problem, I dunno. The SEMA site has a link to each state's registration process, and maybe that will tell ya more. I don't have the link handy, but a SEMA google search should do it. Good luck!
 
  #758  
Old 10-28-2011, 02:15 PM
Jimmy49Ford
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Thanks MT! Cool info. My birthday is Aug. 17 apparently one day before my trucks birthday (although 30 years different). Cool to know, thanks!
 
  #759  
Old 10-28-2011, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by walt460 View Post
mtflat,
Tim,

Thanks, I have to agree.

I have contacted the individual that I purchased the truck from back in 2008 to see if they can go back to the individual that built the truck in 2005 to get any additional info that may be available.

If I hit a dead-end, with getting additional information, I am not sure I can go ahead with my plans to register my truck in Nevada. They will want to see the VIN on the frame and they may know that the VIN on my Michigan, and the old Florida title, does not match a F-1 pickup. In fact, the VIN on my title is not correct any 1949 F series as it has 98PTH397604 shown.

This does not leave me with any good options. Maybe just to keep the truck registered in Michigan, and make a plate with the VIN from the title stamped into it and weld that to the frame on the passenger side just to the rear of the GM front clip. At least that way the truck will have numbers that match my title.

Any other ideas anyone?

Walt
Forget welding a plate, just stamp the frame
36 Piece 3/8" Steel Letter/Number Stamping Set
 
  #760  
Old 10-28-2011, 06:05 PM
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VIN inspection cops here in Colorado are way too lazy to look down at the frame, they only want to see the firewall tag. But, I would advise you to DEFINITELY not put a plate/tag on the frame, stamp directly on the frame as harleymsn says. A tag/plate welded onto the frame is a sure sign of trying to "pull the wool over". I work in the courts and my family is all law enforcement of one type or another (lawyers, investigators, beat cops, court administrators)... and trust me, the fuzz would look at you a lot with a lot more scrutiny if you weld something onto the frame.

If you really want to make it look as legit as possible, buy a repro firewall tag from lmc/macs, get it stamped with the special characters (stars), and stamp the frame to match (substituting I [eye] for 1 [one]) just like the factory did.

Also, I believe there is a 4th "secret" VIN stamping (listed in kbb guides) - on the frame underneath the cab, those folks here who have removed their cab might attest to the existence, I have not removed my cab.

I've yet to post mine - she's camera shy, but will do that later tonight showing a pretty clear what they look like special characters and all.
 
  #761  
Old 10-28-2011, 07:48 PM
walt460
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Finding my correct VIN

Bryan V,
Thanks for the advise, I think you make a great point, I will avoid welding a plate onto the frame and stamp it directly into the frame rail. I was not aware that we could buy a new VIN plate for the firewall. Please do post any pics that you think will help me create a good quality VIN plate!

Oh Boy, if there could be a VIN stamped on the frame under the cab, I will lift the cab for sure to check!! (Cab mounts need to be replaced anyway!)

Thanks again!

Walt
 
  #762  
Old 10-28-2011, 07:53 PM
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Harleymsn,

Thanks for the advise and the tip on which stamps to use!

Walt
 
  #763  
Old 10-28-2011, 08:01 PM
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Havi,

Funny you mention the SEMA site and there State Title procedures, as I did that and did not find much good info on Nevada because the rules here are getting tighter over the last 2 years. If I attempt to register my 49 here in Nevada, they will check the VIN for sure (older than 1966, they check 100%). If they can not verify the VIN, they title your car/truck as a 2011 and then depending on your county, you must get an annual smog check for the year of your engine. It is real strick here in the Vegas area because of the history of stolen cars here in Clark County.

I still own a home in Michigan, so until I sell that, I can keep my Michigan drivers license and my Michigan plates!

Walt
 
  #764  
Old 10-28-2011, 08:05 PM
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walt - when you search for a replacement tag, look for "serial number tag" as the whole vin system wasn't invented until years later (that is mentioned earlier in this thread as well) at the time of manufacture, our vehicles weren't titled or vin'd - the gov didn't care.. the title process was made later and a lot of owners mis-titled them as 49 when they were 50, etc... the original point of this whole thread was to figure out the cutoff since they didn't change the first digit like 48 to 49.

Next post is my (way late) introduction
 
  #765  
Old 10-28-2011, 08:17 PM
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Proper introductions folks...
My name is Bryan, several of you have seen me post but I've never really introduced till now - sorry bout that.
My girl is camera shy so I haven't posted a lot of pix, but it's time to lift the veil

She's originally titled as a '48, I (mis)used my court job to verify no stolen, no mish mash of parts... so I guess you could call mine a "number matching" rig....

answering the original questions:
1 - Year truck is registered as (or believed to be)
1948
2 - VIN # (The whole thing including the 98RC, 98RD, etc.)
87HC113998
3 - Bed - Raised Panel or flat panel
stakeside
4 - Is this the original bed
no 7 1/2', but supposedly 6 1/2' stakeside original
5 - Transmission
crashbox 4 speed spur gear
6 - Column shift or floor shift
floor
7 - # stamped into the firewall if you have one.
7 KC 8G 6


Purchased as a "1948 F1" Stakebed , it is a metalic dark green (forensically, I am pretty sure the original color was Meadow Green)
The stakebed has been replaced (now 7 1/2' non-ford script aftermarket), but the PO claims it was originally a stakebed , PO gave me the "original" sides (6 1/2', correct hardware and sculpting on the uprights) and the original ford script rear piece (beat up bad).
Overload secondary coil springs (no clue if that is original though)


Please correct me if I am wrong on any of this, as well as right / wrong on how to decode.

VIN (on title/registration)
87HC113998

VIN (on firewall tag rivetted to cab firewall)
*87HC*113998* KC
(KC sits in a box marked "Branch")

VIN (stamped on Frame)
*87HC<->113998*

glovebox door - no VIN plate

Vin Decode
8 - 1948
7H - 226 Rouge 6
C - F1 (D=F2, Y=F3, T=F7, TH=F6)
113998 - production number
KC - Kansas City
-------
Firewall Stamp ~1 1/2" tall hand stamped directly into firewall
Mine are actually very clear (albiet sharp, looks like he dang near punched clear through)
7 KC 8G 6
7 - Meadow Green (2=Vermillon Red, 3=Black, 4=Birch Gray, 16=Chrome Yellow)
KC - Kansas City
8 - 8th day of
G - July (A=January...M=December)
6 - 6th stakebed of the year?

The seat back had a dog tag in it that had the following:
FSC
7G 8164700

The HEAD part number casting on the engine
7HA6050-C2

I will post the engine casting when I figure out where the heck it is on the 6 cyl (all the guides show the 8 cyl locations, not the 6)











 

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