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1948-1960: 1949/1950 VIN # Cut off

 
  #256  
Old 01-31-2007, 11:35 PM
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98RY499642

9 = 1949/50
8R = 239 c.i.d. flathaed V8
Y = F3, Heavy Duty 3/4 ton
499642 = Vin sequence #. Base on this one, it's a sure bet this is a 1950 and a rather later one at that.

If you can get the firewall stamping, we can get you some additional information on the truck. Welcome to FTE thanks for adding yours to the mix.

Carl
 
  #257  
Old 02-05-2007, 09:37 AM
GMAXPIII
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1950 f2

Hello...
I "beleive" I have a 1950 f2 but the vin doesn't match the normal "c, y, or t" body codes.
I have a:
97HD 302474 HP
6 cyl.
Four on the floor
Raised panel bed

I think this is the 3/4 ton Heavy Duty "HD" body but I've only seen "HD" listed for F3's, but never in the vin sequence. I've only seen "c,y,or t" prefix.
I'd like to find out for sure what I've got here. I would appreciate any comments.
Max
 
  #258  
Old 02-05-2007, 04:30 PM
mtflat
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Welcome to FTE and the F series of trucks!

According to my notes in late 48, "effective with engine 87H number 110141 Ford replaced the Y with the letter D to identify the F2 series 3/4 ton truck".

So your vin is correct for an early 50 F2.

From the Operator's manual for 1948:
F2 is the 3/4 ton with a gvw of 5700
F3 is the 3/4 ton Heavy Duty with a gvw of 6800
F4 is the 1 ton with gvw of 10000
 

Last edited by mtflat; 02-05-2007 at 04:40 PM.
  #259  
Old 02-05-2007, 06:09 PM
GMAXPIII
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Thanks for the help.
I also tried running the vin through the decoder on this site and came up with a "1949 3/4" for this vin...
Oh well... it's still an awsome truck no matter the year.
Max
 
  #260  
Old 02-05-2007, 06:41 PM
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The decoder on this site has a glitch that hasn't been sorted out yet. It reads all 49 and 50 vins as '49's. Ford saw fit to string the two years together without any notable differences.

Carl (texan2004) has been collecting info in an attempt to sort out the difference between the two. From one of his earlier posts, "Cut off seems to be between 250,000 and 280,000 depending on the assembly plant", you can see why the FTE site gets confused.

i.e. - 98RC 245,000 is a 49 F1 and a 98RC 295,000 is a '50 F1.
 

Last edited by mtflat; 02-05-2007 at 06:52 PM.
  #261  
Old 02-05-2007, 10:01 PM
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And if you are interested, your truck was built in Highland Park, MI. If you look on the firewall, there should be a series of numbers and letters stamped into the firewall. If you can post those here, we may be able to tell you what day your truck was built and the original color if it is not know to you already.

Everything Tim (mtflat) said is correct (as usual) and his comment about the D designation for F2's beginnig with 110141 is something I did not know but makes sense since the early 48's do not always seem to follow the same convention as later trucks with regard to the model designation. This would explain part of it.

Welcome to FTE. Hope you find the site as enjoyable as I have.
 
  #262  
Old 02-06-2007, 08:11 AM
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Hey, thanks for the info guys. I kinda thought it was Highland Park. The original color is that green we know so well from 50's autos. I will try to get the rest of the firewall stamp to verify date made. I'm a little stumped why everytime I check out info on this years vin no one gives the "d" vin. I've checked three different sites that are very good but gave the same info. This was a pretty informative site mercurypickup.com/194950fordusbuilt.htm but also didn't offer the right vin. I understand the vin change by the company but why isn't it listed with the rest in today's auto sites? Just wondered...
 
  #263  
Old 02-06-2007, 08:33 AM
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All of the Ford literature I have from back in the day identifies the "D" designation as the light duty 3/4 tone F2. Remember, most of what you find on the internet should be confirmed elsewhere, including anything I post. I too have a 3/4 ton F2 and it was represented as a 1949 but the VIN # is one of those "Tweeners". 98RD268181. I have yet to pull it out of stroage to verify the build date on the firewall stamping. Hopefully soon.

I think Ford was just beginning to "find it's way" with coded VIN #'s at the time. Example: Why did they stamp the information on the paint color, build date, and assembly plant into the firewall without anything to identify what these numbers meant? Who knows? But they did. They certainly would not have survived one of todays' ISO audits with the way they did things back then.

There are countless examples of weird things they did and inconsitencies. I own a 1950 Highland Park truck and it does not have any firewall stamping that I can find. Norfolk always put a "P" in front of the paint code, no other plant did this. Some plants continued using a number for the paint code into 1950 when most had gone to using a letter. Some plants stamped the firewalls in 1948, most did not. Why do some 1949 trucks with V8's have a lower VIN # than some 1948 trucks with 6 cylinders?? Why were some plants building 1950 3-speeds with columns shifts while others did not?? There are plenty more of these questions but I think you get the point. We were origanally trying to find the 1949/50 VIN # cut-off with this thread but it sort of morphed into quite a bit more of a research project over time.

If you can locate the firewall stamping, I would really appreciate it. Everyone I get really helps.

Thanks,

Carl G.
 

Last edited by texan2004; 02-06-2007 at 08:40 AM.
  #264  
Old 02-06-2007, 11:35 AM
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Carl, I updated my list of vins late last night and I'm seeing an interesting pattern developing I think. I'm just putting them on a word processing program, listing serial numbers in chronological order.

First, I've never been able to get a solid answer as to model year/calendar year relationship during the late 40's and early 50's. In other words. when did Ford start the model year in July/August? The first F1's debuted Jan 16, 1948 and I've wondered if that followed for later years.

The serial numbers haven't indicated a cutoff, but the cowl stampings we've accumulated are a bit more directive. I think I'm seeing the calendar year and model year were the same. The 48/49/50/51 splits came between Dec and Jan in all those years.

If that is correct, then the 49/50 split seems to be leaning closer to 280,000. We have a 6Dec49 (painted stencil) that is 276*** Unfortunately the earliest I have for 50 is 27March at 283*** so there is still lots of room for error.

I still agree it will be a spread of numbers rather than a specific point - just as the V8's switched earlier than 6's between 48/49.

It will be great to find more cowl stampings in the 49/50 area. I think that will be the key to sorting this out. There are just too many subjective errors on titles and hand-me-down info on model years being reported (ebay specifically).
Tim
 
  #265  
Old 02-07-2007, 06:59 AM
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I agree with what you ar saying and I am seeing he same thing. The trick I think may be to get some idea of how long it took them to get a vehicle from the assembly plant to th4e showroom. Was a truck built in late December 1949 and 1949 or was it a 1950?? did they use the build date to determine the model year? Since any changes between 49's and 50's essentially took place in late 1950, perhaps????

The firewall stampings will likely tell the story.

One other thing I have noticed is that the descrepencies between the 6 cylinders and the V8's continued through this period of time. A 6 clinder build in say, August 1950 in Richmond, CA, would have a higher VIN # than a higher VIN sequence # than a V8 built at the same time. I have at least one example of this and perhaps two.

I've thought about asking our moderator to permit us to start a new sticky thread that asks for firewall stampings based on the success of this thread but just haven't gotten around to it.
 
  #266  
Old 02-12-2007, 06:52 PM
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Hey guys. My truck's firewall stamp appears to be 8KC17U28, which would indicate a color code of 8, correct? Have you had anyone else with this color code, or figured out what it is? I believe the truck (1950 F3) was a kind of yellowish green originally -- it's been painted since then.
 
  #267  
Old 02-12-2007, 09:31 PM
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Jeff,

I have never come across a paint code of 8. That said, I don't have a numeric paint code ofr Sheridan Blue, Palisades Green, or Primer Only.

The KC indicates your truck was built in Kansas City. The 17U is a date code. You truck was built on the 17th of some month. That letter should be from A-M except that the letter "I" was skipped to avoid confusion with the digit 1 I suspect. Any chance it could be a "C" or a "D" or a"G" or a "J". It would help if we had the VIN #.

BTW, I really like your old F3.

Carl
 
  #268  
Old 02-12-2007, 10:02 PM
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Carl, the VIN is 98RY 358967 KC.

I posted my truck in this thread a long time ago (pages 4 and 6). This past weekend I gathered up my VIN and firewall numbers and started decoding everything. The only match I cannot find is the color. It still looks like an 8, but could be a B or a heavily stamped 3.

Looking at "Earl's World - Reference Material ", George has month codes posted for N-Z, which would make my truck's born-on date July 17...?
 
  #269  
Old 02-12-2007, 10:58 PM
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According to my resources, the date codes George lists are for trucks built after Sept 15, '51 when Ford changed the vins. I've never seen that used for 48 thru 50's but I guess it's possible.

Interesting wrinkle.......maybe they were experimenting?

edit: Carl has kept me up to date on vins collected and looking at my list I have your cowl stamp as 8KC17H28 which would be 17 August.
 

Last edited by mtflat; 02-12-2007 at 11:05 PM.
  #270  
Old 02-12-2007, 11:31 PM
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Based on the VIN #, my best guess is that the "U" may be a "J" which would make the build date 9/17/1950. Could be an "H" I suppose. It would be great if you could get us a picture of the firewall stamping to try and interpret. I know that some of these charcters are difficult to read. They certainly are on my trucks.

Jeff - My thoughts are pretty much the same as Tims' (mtflat). I suppose it could have been an experiment but if yours is using the dual year date code system, it would be the first one I've come across that did. I have collected quite a few later 1950 VIN #'s with date codes and they all use the A-M system. I've seen it published that Ford continued using the 1949/50 style VIN #'s through September 1951 but I've never come across any examples to support this claim. All 1951's I've ever seen used the new in 1951 VIN system and the build dates for the 1950's I've collected all seem to correspond to a reasoned incease in VIN # through a single calender year.

Of the 362 VIN #'s I've managed to collect to date, I only have build dates for 44 of them so I must admit my data is certainly less than complete but again, I have not yet come across the 2nd year system of N-Z on any of the 1950's from any of the plants and I do have two other examples of 1950 trucks built in KC with build dates, one prior to yours and one later. Both use the A-M system.

If you'd like, PM me your e-mail address or smoke me a note at carl_w_gustafson at yahoo dot com and I would be happy to forward you a current copy of the spreadsheet I have amassed. There are some interesting trends even with the limited amount of data. One example of this is that a 6-cyl truck built in July might have a higher VIN # than a V8 truck built at the same plant in August. We saw this same type thing with the 48's but apparently it continued on through the 49 and 50 model years. Also, the Norfolk plant alway stamped a "P" in front of the paint code. No other plant ever did this. Most plants went to letters for the paint code in 1950 but I see no indication that the Richmond plant ever went to letters and KC seems to have held out on the conversion to letters until very late in 1950 - post September. Perhaps I am a little warped but I find this stuff interesting.

I really appreciate you posting your information Jeff. If we could get everyone to do it we would likely learn all sorts of weird stuff about these trucks.

Carl
 

Last edited by texan2004; 02-12-2007 at 11:36 PM.

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