Been reading a lot lately about what seem like minor un-important details of vehicle maintenance that dont seem to have any effect on my (old) cars/trucks. Details like specific oils, top tier gasolines with detergents, and even vehicle re-calls. Are cars nowadays just designed to be crap? were there anywhere near as many recalls in the late 60s early 70s as there are now?

It seems to me that older vehicles dont care what grade of gasoline is run in them, wether its unleaded or not. They dont care what weight oil is put in them as long as its fresh (certianly NOT a brand specific (i.e.- mitsubishi makes oil? )). They dont have some stupid computer controlling every little detail.

So, if i change the oil and fill the tank in my '70 F250, I have no problems. In the event that something breaks, i have the abilitly to get my toolbox out and fix it. I hear people say new trucks have to run this octane fuel, oil changes must be done by the dealer with dealer oil, etc, etc. In the event something breaks, haul it to the dealer and hook up the computer.

are new vehicles really so finicky people need to worry about the brand of gasoline they use and if it has enough detergents in it? (and all the other stuff too? )

 

Well, here's the thing. If I need to change spark plugs in my '70 F100, I wait until I go to the store next time, pick up some Autolite 45's, come back home, 10 minutes later, done. Go wash my hands.

If I need to change spark plugs in my Mother's 2004 Trailblazer, I open the hood, wonder how the heck I'm ever going to get at the things, maybe go buy some plugs, discover that they're buried about a foot under wires, intake manifold, fuel lines, and other stuff. Then I determine that I cannot do the job at home with the tools available. I take the Trailblazer to the dealer, along with the plugs. I sit for a few hours in an uncomfortable chair, looking through brochure's of Chevy's finest new offerings while the smell of oil, axle grease, and exhaust give me a headache. A while later, I get it back. Now the whole afternoon is dead.

Now which is simpler?

 

thats exactly my point although i can be confusing..... new vehicles are supposed to be more reliable, but if you ever have to fix them, good luck. They are also WAY to picky for me to feel that the "reliability" of a new car is worth the fuss.

 

DorkPunch:

There are pros and cons in everything in life and this includes new and old vehicles.

Here's how I see it.

First, there are probably more recalls because new vehicles are much more complex.

I agree that some of the fancy gasoline stuff is a big gimmick and a load of crap. Any brand name fuel should have the necessary detergents to keep the injectors clean on late model vehicles. Now you might say that your old 1970 truck "doesn't care" what gas you use. That may not be true. If it has the original valve seats you better use an octane booster or the valve seats will wear out quickly. If you have hardened seats then this isn't a concern.

As for oil: your owners manual will show what oil Ford recommends for that vehicle so it probably does care what weight of oil it uses. If you run a 30 weight non-detergent then prepare for an overhaul.

Oil Changes: The manufacturers recommend you have your oil changed by the dealer with their "brand" of oil because they make money off of it. There are only a few companies in the U.S. that package motor oil (probably the very same "few companies" that refine crude oil). But I don't see the big deal with paying the dealer to change the oil. My wife has a late model Subaru and she has always had the dealership change the oil. Costs $20 just like Walmart or just like going to Walmart and buying a filter and five quarts of oil. The best part is I don't have to do it! Actually the best part is that if something goes wrong they can't blame it on maintenance. My point is this: the oil change doesn't cost any more on a new vehicle than on an old one for a comparable size engine (diesels do not apply).

And you're right, if something does break down on your 1970 truck you can fix it. Stuff like points every so often, and carbs out of tune right when it is most inconvenient.

Rusty:

Granted the plugs are definately easier to change on your F100. But here are a few things to consider. The coolest thing about changing the plugs on the Trailblazer is you probably only have to do it once every 100,000 miles. You can't say that about your 1970 F-100! Also, your 1970 (don't know what engine) probably won't get anywhere close to 100,000 without an overhaul, let alone the 200,000 + miles you should get from the Trailblazer (or any late model vehicle) before overhaul. Also, the F100 probably won't make near 20 mpg rolling 75 mph down the interstate like a lot of late model half ton pickups. (yours may, I don't know how it is set up)

Okay, now that you're probably both calling me names; I think you both make excellent points and agree with some of what you say. MY point is just how I started this post, there are pros and cons to new and old vehicles.

What I like about the new vehicles I drive are the fact that I can leave for a 1500 mile road trip and not have to worry that the points are going to burn halfway through. I can go to the mountains and not have to worry about re-jetting my carb. I can drive it for 200,000 before it starts to use any oil. (Being finicky with new vehicle maintenance is what helps them run 200K miles.) And they always start whether it's 110 or -30 and don't take 10 minutes to warm up.

What I like about old vehicles is that they have cheap insurance and taxes. And they're cheap to work on which is good, because you usually have to. I'm not saying this is all bad. I enjoy working on my old vehicles ('70 F-250, old farm trucks and tractors). But I enjoy my "new" vehicles for daily drivers.

Pros and cons. Why can't anything be cut and dried like death and taxes?

Sorry if I ramble. It's just my $0.02, (wait a minute this looks a lot more like $2.00.)

 

Where the hell can you get an oil change for 20 bucks? Its 40 for my mom to get her oil changed at the diesel shop, and 80 for my dad's conversion van at the luxury car place.

 

Move to the Midwest. No wait, don't, we don't want any more people here.

Seriously though, it's $20 for an oil and filter at the Subaru dealer. I think she gets a discount (like $10) because she bought the car there new. They even have the program where you buy 5 and get the next oil change free! (Again, may be for new car customers only.)

Again, as I said originally, diesels don't apply because they usually hold more oil.

As for your Dad's van, do you think the fact that he takes it to a luxury car place might affect the price?

My Mom gets her oil changed at Walmart for $20 (before tax) every 3000 miles.

Guess we're just lucky.

 

$26.00 at Miller Brothers Ford in Maryland - in and out in 30 minutes..........So far the service has been excellent, and I don't have to wonder where I can dispose of the old oil and filter!

 

Well, not every old vehicle applies here. Take mine. I have a Mallory unilite distributor. It's not going to wear out. I have a Holley fuel injection system on my truck. I'm not rejetting anything. The fuel injection means I can start it at what ever temperature the new ones will. The quality of the new oils means I can run a newly rebuilt old motor just as long as a new motor.

 

Dorkpunch,

Funny you bring up that Mitsu makes or packages oil...

Mitsu or one of its subsidiaries is building a LPG plant in Quintana right across the ICW from DOW in Free(k)port. They were already clearing the land this spring and since I don't work on the boat anymore, I can not tell how much progress has been made since I left in August.

Their cars might be relative junk, but if the checks don't ounce for the locals working at that plant in due time, so be it.

 

how about those hybrids? Have you seen the undercarriage of one of them? Good luck fixing that transmission...and then affording the bill.

 

I think that most of the people here are afraid of all the wires and hoses of the new motors. No offense to anyone, and don't take it the wrong way. If you are willing to step back, grab a service manual, and then study it for a bit, you will realize that the motors in the new vehicles are very easy to work on. Granted there is more stuff in the way, but you don't have to worry about changing points, or setting the timing, or changing plugs ever 30k. They are very reliable, just about tell you what exactly is wrong, and they are nice to drive.

 

Pro's and cons to each.


Every old truck I had you had to toy with it often, adjust this, adjust that. How often do you have to take a wrench or screwdriver to yor "old" truck? My new 04 I have had to do nothgin to it, a year and a half on it so far and nothgin but maintenance. Oil changes are $20.xx I had to have the trans serviced and flushed and an oil change, it cost $190.xx but that is maintenance, beats the heck out of an alternator, starter solenoid, bearing replacement, u joint replacement, etc etc etc that I always ran into with my "old" trucks. As for working on them, it ain't hard if you have the proper tools and such. I don't have time to work on a truck daily, weekly, or monthly or whenever it acts up so I bought a new one, much more dependable in my opinion.

As far as electronics, it ain't just on cars. A freind of mine who is a big farmer has a Case/IH MX 230, if something goes wrong the tech shows up with a laptop, plugs it in to diagnose it. His new planter has a control monitor in the cab with a touch screen that is as big as my laptop computer (15" screen) and the gauges all read digital not an actual gauge like we knew them to be. Transmission shifts via buttons, hydraulics are the same way, front end assist is the same and on and on.

 

Well I have one my friends 04 150 fx4 its going in for the tick all the 3Vs have well his is getting very loud and many vibrations with diffrence in throttle, and a couple other things he woulden't say. His old truck 92 bronco 6" lift 35s 302 that truck got beat and asked for more everyday granted it being lifted maintance is higher, but he beats his new one just as bad ton noise coming from the rear end, vibrations noises hmmm.
For me the older the better but having efi is alot nicer EEC-IV the sensors are alot simpler easier to work on and adaptable(my 77 is getting a efi 400). New vehicles are beyond that mark now into EEC-VI working on them isn't fun lock tabs for wires are hidden and odd. After dealing with things most new vehilces ball joints fall apart at 30k miles anymore(new trucks lower control arms aluminum with a steel ball joint corrosion?).
Around here I see tons of new vehicles, I still talk to my mechanic that when I coulden't figure it out he would tell me. His words look at all the mechanics vehicles at local small shops its either a older chevy or older ford and here its the truth, they know if you work on it keep it simple if you take it buy new.

Curtis

 

Could be the reason for all these new-car recalls is that not-enough people pay attention to the condition of their vehicles, whereas with our older vehicles(my 77 F250 and 81 Olds 88) we actually don't mind washing our trucks or doing our own maintenennce, theres only so much a computer can tell you when the mechanic has it for 20 minutes every couple of months, but when we are crawling on top of, underneath of and inside of every part of our "old reliable"(theres a reason for that phrase) we notice if there is a bend in a tie-rod or a new drip off the end of the transmission, a nick in the paint or a mis-aligned door seal or any number of easily fixable items-that when left unattended on newer vehicles seem to turn into big problems really fast

comparing a 70's vehicle to an 2005 vehilce is like comparing a 2005 Kia to a 2005 Ferrari

 

People expect more from newer vehciles and with newer computers and access to extensive databases to track problems both the Feds and OEMs can ID and track potential problems that even 10 years ago that would have gone unnoticed. Older vehicles can probably be driven 40 years with min. $ investment, though they require more routine upkeep.

Example: a newer car can actually go up to 100k without plug changes, on an older vehicle 12,000 miles tops.

A newer vehicle (even a truck) gets far better gas mileage then older ones and spews out much less emissions.

It is a trade off of what you find acceptable. I will say, the chances of finding computer components for a 15-20 year old vehicle without paying close to what the vehicle is worth, especially if it was not a good seller, are pretty slim. Plus, having it reliable is slim. 20 year old wiring, especially in a rust belt state, is not going to be one of a truck's stronger points.

Anything OBDII (1996) forward I think will be very hard to fix 20 years from now.