Who's approach to new V8 gas engines do like best?

I like Ford's progressive approach of using advanced technology such as over head cams, multi valves, along with advanced combustion chamber designs, with controled induction dynamics. The modular engines are the way to the future in my opinion. Moreover, the modulars are proving themselves to be tough, powerful, and reliable. This is cutting edge engineering manifested.

I dislike GM's stangnant approach of trying to just deal an improvement of the traditional pushrod V8 wedge. The Vortec engine is slightly better than the old SBC, but it's it's still not moving foraward, and living in the past, in my opinion.

At least Dodge is doing the old pushrod V8 with some spice and inspired thinking. It's at least using a clean sheet of paper at the start. Although, it's not a true Hemi in the sense of the 426 Hemi, it's still a innovative combustion chamber design. It's better engineered overall than the GM offering. It's also spectacular marketing.

 

You are the most gifted person on this site at presenting correct technical info.


But the proof is in the pudding.......or numbers if you will. The OHC Fords have not been out performing the "stangnant" (sic) LS based motors and the higher tech Hemis haven't either.

The OHC design does have its advantages.......especially valve control at higher RPM's. Unfortunately, the truck motors don't really take advantage of this.

The V10 does seem to be at the moment the king of gassers but the 6.0 LS motor used in the SSR (390 hp ? TORQUE)would perform as well IMO in a HD truck.........no need to start on the torque curve stuff, I've been taching my V10 for years to keep up.


The 5.4 (3 VALVE)IMO has been a failure. It makes similar #'s to the GM motors and gets stuffed by the pseudo-hemi and the 4 valve Nissan motor.


So while I agree with you that the architecture is there.........I would rather see it proven on the street rather than on paper.


BTW. The GM LS head has a very modern chamber and port design and is actually a newer design than the OHC wedge type chamber used in the Ford Mod motors by about 6 years!!!


Proof in the pudding;

7L GM motor making 500HP N/A
6L @ 390 HP N/A
5.3 @ 325 hp (???)


The thing that kills me most about the MOD motors is that I believe they have more capability than Ford puts on the streets.........but the freaking size is UNBELIEVABLE when compared to an LS based motor.

Was razzing a friend about putting a GM motor in his long travel sand rail.......when I saw the physical size difference of a DOHC 281 CID motor to his 346 CID motor I had to shut up..........quickly!!!

 

Ford has the best approach of the "Big 3" but the execution of that approach is disappointing. I am driving a Nissan Armada SUV which replaced my Ford Expedition because the modular engine just is not getting the job done.

Sad thing is that Ford has the technology and even the parts on the shelf, but has chosen a strange way to bring it to market. The four valve heads for the 5.4 engine are available but were ditched in favor of very questionable three valve design.

And the engine's torque curve and the transmission gearing are not optimized. Maybe the new 6 speed tranny if it gets into the full-sized trucks and regular SUV's will help.

The current "gem" of full-sized light truck engine and transmission design, is, in my humble and respectful opinion, the Nissan Endurance 5.6 mated to its very smart and properly geared 5 speed automatic. People can say whatever they wish to about Nissan and its Titan/Armada products, but the engine and transmission are absolutely light years ahead of anything else out there in this market segment, and just about every objective published comparison test backs this up.

Ford has the right general idea, but has failed to take advantage of its own work. Ford can beat Nissan at its own game with stuff already on the shelf if it will just wake up and take notice.

 

Tough one, I like for instance the 4.6 in the Mustang GT. Revs quick is smooth but is somewhat a dog under 3k. The problem with Ford though is gas mileage. The Vette with 100 hp and torque gets 5 miles more to the gallon than the Mustang.

I don't really look at engine design as much as I look at engine performance. Push rod engines and overhead cam engine have been around a long time. For me its all about intended use. If I'm not reving and engine over 7K pushrods are fine. Now if Ford can ever figure out how to get gas mileage and performance out of the same motor cool.

 

i'm not really going to saythat I dislike the modular motor, cause I have one, but it is really behind the others in terms of output. And technically, it is the oldest design of the bunch. The current vortec motors have almost nothing in common with the sbc, and the current dodge offereings have nothing in common either. I really don't know enough about the nissan, may be good, may be not so good. I'll see in a few years what ones are like that actually were worked hard.

 

Like i was just saying in another thread, they had the 4v head dohc engines but they just threw them away! I just don't get it. The Fords make less power and get worse milage from what i've heard (although that has a lot to do with gearing and weight of the truck.. )

Maybe they thought it was a reliability issue? But I never heard anything bad about the navigator engine. Ford really missed with the 3v heads i think..

 

No they didn't, they sent them all to us silly Aussies

WOOT!!!!

 

I had the chance to drive an '05 Chevy 1/2er with the 5.3 and if that motor is pushing 325 horse it must have a TON of drivetrain loss because I was SERIOUSLY disapointed in it, it felt slow as hell. I havent driven the 3v 5.4 but i know my 5.4 in my '99 F 150 is a pretty decent motor, it moves me up and down the road at 55 or 105 if i choose and does it with ease.

 

I test drove a Hemi Durango before buying an Aviator a couple of months ago. The Aviator feelt a lot stronger than the Durango, especially when punching it from 60 or 70 mph- highway speeds. Mileage for the Aviator is about 13 in city biased mixed driving, about what I have read the Hemi gets in its SUV. Low end torque with the 4.6 dohc is much better than I expected, acually very decent. The 5 speed auto works very good keeping the revs up when needed. The 4.6 dohc has tons more real world power than any 2 valve sohc, and feels stronger in the Aviator chassis than a 3 valve F150 that I drove for a while. I'm sold on the 4 valve heads, sorry to see them go.

 

You're basically saying what Armada was saying........sorta bizzare that Ford mis-matches the drivetrains on the trucks but on the SUV they use a decent 5 speed automatic.


My Marauder could really use that 5 speed!!!

 

I don't like any. Ford, once again, has too small displacement in it's engine family. I like the v10, but they need to offer it in lighter vehicles. Heck, treat it like Dodge does the HEMI and put it in everything, from the F150 to the Expy and to the Marauder (that's what it should've had to begin with). The engine itself is shorter than the old 460s. I know, I have 1 sitting in my garage and another mocked up in my mustang.

I'm not sure why, in a time of $3.00/gallon gas, that pushrod engines are in use. Sure, you can get good gas mileage, but it would get better with OHC due to less rotating mass and valvetrain friction.

I was really excited about the possibility of the Hurricane v8s, but they dropped the ball. Oh well, I guess that I'll have to keep building my own rides.

 

The 5.3 in the 05 Silverado only has 295 Horsepower not 325hp, the newer version for 06 thats gonna be available for the silverado is called the VortecMax and is gonna be pushing 345HP and will be available for the Ext cabs and Crew Cab 1/2 ton's.

 

You're gonna have to school me on the less rotating mass statement ......always thought 1 cam rotating was less than 2 or even four cams.

Reduced friction??? Roller tappets and roller rockers have very little or no friction. (Ford's OHC still uses rockers BTW)

Valve control, multi valve tech. and no pushrods are the advantages I've always thought of with OHC............your advantages are new to me.


Displacement is not the problem........I will list many European/Japanese cars, if you'd like, with the same specs AND with smaller cubes, SOHC instead of DOHC, 3 valve vs 4 etc........that stomp our stuff. It's all in the synergy of the drivetrain........matching 5 and 6 speed trans, correct gearing, correct VVT etc....

 

The 5.3 has an option (I think alluminum heads) to give 325 h.p. and 315 h.p. for the normal one in 2006, somebody correct me if I'm wrong. And true about the vortecmax option, which is the 6.0 L out of the SS.

 

Ford missed nothing with the 3 valve head, it is an exceptional design and is superior in some ways to the 4v head. For instance you can get variable valve timing on both exaust and intake ports with out the extra need for another cam shaft. Less moving parts = less friction and less to go wrong. Now you all keep going on about these 4 v heads and how much bettet they are, but how much better are they? not much if at all. Ford took an excellent approach to it new designs, Mercedes used the heads for a long time an look at the amazing output of those motors, 5.4 supercharged motors with over 500lbs of torque at a super low rpm. Now MB is going to 4 v heads for good reasons, because you can use direct injection and all those new goodies. The 3v head is an excellent design for any truck, it has less moving parts but can obtain, if tuned right, great numbers. Dont get me wrong 4v heads rock but if you can get the same power with less moving parts I say go for it. Besides I dont blame ford for the 3v heads I blame them for a 4 speed tranny in a heavy truck. I think it would be a much different storry if the f-150 was lighter or had an extra gear or two. Then again who really needs a kick *** 0-60 in a truck?? they are not for racing they are for towing, if you can tow a big load in an f-150 3v at a good speed why do you need 100 hp more. I would rather know I have the strongest truck rather than get to 60 a second and a half sooner. I Put up with my slow *** BII all day long so dont tell me about slow, I know, But the truth is my truck has never let me down and it is 21 years old and I off road as much as I can. I just take care of it and know ford built me a solid truck, just like the new f-150s.