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oil change interval 3,000 or 5,000

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2004 - 2008 F150 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 Ford F150's with 5.4 V8, 4.6 V8 engine

oil change interval 3,000 or 5,000

 
  #16  
Old 06-28-2005, 03:26 PM
ChrisAdams
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Originally Posted by KevinM
No I don't think any sentances negates each other. The book states CHANGE EVERY 5,000 MILES. If you as an owner fall into the severe duty cycle, then change according to the book for that duty cycle. In this case I don't even think the severe duty cycle is 3,000K. So to randomly say change every 3,00 miles yes it is overkill. Engines burn cleaner than in the past based on the changes in gasoline formula
(MTBEs), fuel economy increase mandates every year and so the reasoning of dumping gas in the oil is not what it used to be. Especially since rings have been redesigned in the last 10years to prevent it as in past years. Just because oil is changing color does not indicate it is contaminated to the point it needs to be changed. It indicates it is doing it's job!
As one previous poster has stated oil change recommendations is always on the conservative side. The 3,000 make if it is not in the owners manual, is just working off of old myth that is keeping the cash registers ringing!

BTW oil does wear out, multi vis oils use VI's to get to a multi vis oil. The draw back, constant heat over time breaks down the ability to be a multigrade. VI's are not restored to a dispursed molcular configuration, they stay aligned, which allows it to only provide protection to the base number which is the lowest number. So once in this state you loose the protection of the higher number!
It's the chemistry of oil!
other post

Originally Posted by KevinM
Oils today do not breakdown as in previous years. Nor do engines have as much dirty blow by. So go by the book. Changing every 3K is overkill and just costing $$ out of your pocket. If you are in the severe duty cycle then conform to it.
Sentence three says 3k is overkill, sentence four says it isn't.

Between your two posts you say oil does not break down, then you say it does.
OK... have it your way???

When oil gets dirty, it changes color. We change oil because it carries particles in suspension, which is how detergents work.
That means it changes color.
If the oil has little color change, such as in a propane powered IC engine, we extend the oil change by 200%. Look it up...

Diesels put 'smoke' in their oil, so it turns black very quickly. That is why you use CD DD, etc. oils in diesels, and change the oil even more often than in gas engines. OK, the 20 to one compression ratio also helps.


In one post you say that motors are cleaner because of less dirty blow by, that would be passing oil past the rings, valves, by definition.
That would imply tighter clearances.
Post two, you change that to burn cleaner because of 'better' gas.

Let's assume both are true, though I can find no documentation from the people who make the engines, as they still build to the same clearances.

The gas being cleaner is more political than real.
In fact, as has been proven repeatedly in court battles from Alaska to Arizona, the new gas is usually harder on the engine, and no cleaner.
Here in the Golden State, they acknowledged that a few years ago, but the state legislature decreed that 'the appearance of doing something' was more important than the facts.

Great day for Government.

It was soon forgotten. But the gas hasn't been improved.

We both agree that 3000 mile oil changes in normal service are a money making thing, primarily.

We both agree that most people change their oil much too soon.

I think we would both agree that some don't change it enough.

I live under VERY bad conditions, five of their severe conditions, and still I am not worried. Modern semi-synthetic oil is pretty darn good.
We both agree there.

Rabbit butchering is fun, isn't it?
Chris
 
  #17  
Old 06-28-2005, 03:40 PM
timhood
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Not that it applies to our trucks, but you must rotate the tires on AWD vehicles. All four tires must remain at the same overall diameter. If you have half the tread gone and get a blow-out, you're supposed to replace all four tires or risk expensive damage to your AWD system.

Oh, and while you're rotating them, that's a great time to change their oil. Tires work best with fully-synthetic tire oil.
 
  #18  
Old 06-28-2005, 03:46 PM
KevinM
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Where are you going I did not say it does not breakdown just not like in past years!

Lets get a reading comprehension course!

No implications as you suggest, you are assuming, you know what that means!

Chris you know not what you speak if you continue to say gas has not improved you are out of date bub!
MTBEs are used in higher concentrations to allow more oxygination, which means less emissions, better burn! If you disagree with that then you you need to take it up with the chemical engineers! You have no clue why MTBE's are used in higher concentrations than in past years!
Now if you knew anything about latest engine design and follow the development of piston rings by hastings etc.. you would know that the newer rings seal better then in old days.
I think you are confusing Ethynol mixed fuel vs, no Ethnol with higher MTBEs. There is no evidence that MTBE's is determental to engine function. Ethynol mixed fuels which is also an oxyginate, are the ones with differing opinion on engine longevity!
On another note the California legislature was instrumental in pushing the oil companies to higher concentrations of MTBE's to counter fuel emissions. Now they want it band because of the cancer effects and it dissolves in water, polluting ground water!
 
  #19  
Old 06-28-2005, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruckus
I used to change my oil and filter myself. Now I take it in to the dealership service department every 3000 miles. I pay about $25 and even get the tires rotated. Anyway, my cousin is the service advisor and told me to bring it in every 3000 miles. Some dealerships may tell you 5000 miles but he feels the engine will last longer with the 3000 mile service. So, I think I will try to protect my investment the best I can, even if it cost a extra hundred bucks a year. Good Luck!
Ford says every 5000 unless it's unusually rough conditions...For 99% of us, that's all you need to do.

My uncle used to never change his oil. He changed the filter twice a year and added oil when needed. His cars all had hundreds of thousands of miles on them.
 
  #20  
Old 06-28-2005, 04:49 PM
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[QUOTE=KevinM]Where are you going I did not say it does not breakdown just not like in past years!

you point out that it does not pollute less. You are narrowly defining pollution in terms of MTBE, rather than actual danger to humans, or even other species. This is the mark of the environmentalist. Not the engineer, or scientist.

I believe you mean Ethanol and Oxygenate. All motor vehicle fuels sold in California are blends. None are not.
anyone spending a little time working on injection and carburetion will find that the damage the ethanol and oxygenated fuels do to rubber, neoprene, and plastic is very well documented.


No implications as you suggest, you are assuming, you know what that means!

Chris you know not what you speak if you continue to say gas has not improved you are out of date bub!
Originally Posted by KevinM
Where are you going I did not say it does not breakdown just not like in past years!
Here;
Oils today do not breakdown as in previous years.

I believe you are now saying that this sentence is actually to read, Oils today do not breakdown as MUCH as in previous years? Does change the meaning.

Originally Posted by KevinM
Lets get a reading comprehension course!
I think you mean 'take a reading comprehension course. I think. Not sure.



Originally Posted by KevinM
Chris you know not what you speak if you continue to say gas has not improved you are out of date bub!
Don't think so, the courts are running another of these cases in the courts as we speak.
The argument here comes from difference in defining improved. You are suggesting improvement comes from political correctness, or polluting less, but in your own post that follows, notice the last line;


Originally Posted by KevinM
MTBEs are used in higher concentrations to allow more oxygination, which means less emissions, better burn! If you disagree with that then you you need to take it up with the chemical engineers! You have no clue why MTBE's are used in higher concentrations than in past years!
Now if you knew anything about latest engine design and follow the development of piston rings by hastings etc.. you would know that the newer rings seal better then in old days.
I think you are confusing Ethynol mixed fuel vs, no Ethnol with higher MTBEs. There is no evidence that MTBE's is determental to engine function. Ethynol mixed fuels which is also an oxyginate, are the ones with differing opinion on engine longevity!
On another note the California legislature was instrumental in pushing the oil companies to higher concentrations of MTBE's to counter fuel emissions. Now they want it band because of the cancer effects and it dissolves in water, polluting ground water

You narrowly define pollution in terms of MTBE's, rather than actual danger to humans, or even other species. This is the mark of the environmentalist. Not the engineer, or scientist.

I believe you mean Ethanol and Oxygenate in these posts. I suspect you mean banned,

All motor vehicle fuels sold in California are blends. Thus my statment.

Anyone spending a little time working on injection and carburetion will find that the damage the ethanol and oxygenated fuels do to rubber, neoprene, and plastic is very well documented.

As to research Hastings or Sealed Power have done on rings, it really does not come into the equation.
The ring developments are from the 70's. I was using the 'perfect' seal rings myself in my own projects in the 80's.

Not a new technology, just newly hyped. And oddly, the makers are not using the new technology as it was intended.

This is pretty common.
The most famous example is the Hydraulic Roller Cam.
Invented many years before Chevrolet first put it in stock engines,
hydraulic roller cams can produce much more horsepower, but when the car makers finally adopted them, they did not adopt the features that made better horsepower or torque, they simply used them as they would the old cams, just gaining very slightly from the decreased resistance.

It has taken 20+ years for them to slowly realize the benefits of roller cam in improving valve timing to improve power curves.
The new rings, (new meaning a couple dozen years old), are still fitted into cylinders, and sleeves that are still made using pre-Deming methods.

Cars have had excellent sealing on the rings since the 60's.
The higher compression of that era, combined with the poorer grade oil did allow for more oil consumption.
Although, the amount of oil use on the newest 5.4 that is considered normal, is precisely the same as on a 351 engine in 1969. interesting isn't it?

None of which has a dang thing to do with the original post;
See, itís all about splitting hairs.
Chris
 
  #21  
Old 06-28-2005, 05:12 PM
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Uh, I forgot...what was the question again?
 
  #22  
Old 06-28-2005, 05:39 PM
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Well Chris you continue to twist my words to suit yourself! You really don't get it. You are full of old information, and just keep mis-representing the facts, which by the way does nothing positive on this board but dilute what the original poster is asking!

Why not get the facts straight before you mislead with your opinions. After all they are your opinions with no facts.

It is obvious you have not kept up with what is going on, or you would not make the statements you do. You probably never heard of axial formed rings! If you did and understood the physics behind them you wouldn't be raving about what you did in the 70's and 80's, because it doesn't apply to todays technology!

I am finished toying with your incompetance!
 
  #23  
Old 06-28-2005, 05:56 PM
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Smile

Chris (bub?), I am going to continue my 3000 mile change. Life is too short to allow dirty oil in my engine. Take Care!
 
  #24  
Old 06-28-2005, 06:07 PM
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I have a question. I have a company vehicle for every day use and only use my 2004 F150 5.4 on weekends. I put approx 100 - 120 miles on per week. Should I change oil at 3k, 5k or every 3 or 4 months?
 
  #25  
Old 06-28-2005, 06:16 PM
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Smile

If you do a search you will find out plenty about this topic.My gut, my sevice advisor and the color of my oil tells me to change every 3000 miles and not let it go past 4000 miles.I think 6 months would probably be maxinum time I would want dirty oil to set in my engine.Good Luck!
 
  #26  
Old 06-28-2005, 10:13 PM
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I change my oil every 3 moths, regardless of the mileage. It's usually about 2000-2200 miles. People say that too often, but you know what, It can't hurt to lean on the side of caution. I change the oil in my 99 ZX2 every 3k religously, and have been running it on mobil 1 full synthetic since 49k. It's got 105k on it now and when I drain the oil it comes out just a hair dirty, no sludge built up in engine whatsoever. So i'll get trashed for dropping the synthetic every 3k, I don't care. An ounce of prevention is a great measure to promote the longevity of an engine.
 
  #27  
Old 06-29-2005, 11:27 AM
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My Invention

I've been thinking of inventing this product...I'm sure I could make a killing with it. It's a large reservoir tank that you fill up with your favorite oil. It supplies the engine with fresh oil. In place of the filter is a drain system that recovers used oil. You never have old, dirty oil in your system. No oil "changes" or filters purchased. You simply dump your used oil (or give it to a friend, since it will be still usable ) and keep the fresh supply adequate.
 
  #28  
Old 06-29-2005, 01:34 PM
ChrisAdams
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Originally Posted by KevinM
Well Chris you continue to twist my words to suit yourself! You really don't get it. You are full of old information, and just keep mis-representing the facts, which by the way does nothing positive on this board but dilute what the original poster is asking!

Why not get the facts straight before you mislead with your opinions. After all they are your opinions with no facts.

It is obvious you have not kept up with what is going on, or you would not make the statements you do. You probably never heard of axial formed rings! If you did and understood the physics behind them you wouldn't be raving about what you did in the 70's and 80's, because it doesn't apply to todays technology!

I am finished toying with your incompetance!
Notice all the personal attacks, etc. Now finally this is why I don't like oil threads, (read the first few posts if that statment doesn't mean anything to you) As I originally said, it's a religious thing with many people. This is the kind of thing that kills forums, ruins posting and reading threads. I would rather talk about the truck than hair split, but there you go.
Chris
 
 
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