Hi Everyone,

I am thinking of putting an AOD tranny in my 1960 F100.
Currently the truck has a C4 that is slipping badly in first and reverse.

I am planning on going with a new 302 engine from FordRacingParts and getting a performance rebuilt transmission to go with it.

My questions:

1. How much longer is the AOD (not AODE, I will not have the computer) than the C4? I would like to see the engine moved slightly forward anyway but have to check clearances.

2. Will the AOD need a bellhousing and will the C4 bellhousing fit?

3. What would be the correct flexplate to use? The engine would be a brand new block (not rebuilt) from Ford. Will this be a problem if I am using the bellhousing from the old C4? I am not sure of the year of the C4.

4. Any issues with the kick down linkage? Buying a newly rebuilt tranny I will not have that linkage unless I can use what is on the C4 or I may have a linkage from an AOD from an 85 Crown Vic if it will work.

I have the 9" rear axle. I am not sure if it is the original axle or if it was swapped out. I do not know the current gearing in the axle, can anyone suggest how I would determine that?

A 302 bolted into the truck now sits really far back so that I cannot attach the crossover pipe on the back of the heads without it hitting the driver side firewall. If I have room, the extra length of the AOD might move the engine to a more reasonable position under the hood and help with clearances as long as there is enough room to lift the engine so the lower pulley clears the front cross member.

The engine is rated at 345HP with the correct intake. I do not plan to make full use of that HP though. The rear axle is probably geared really low for the original 6Cyl (assuming it is the original axle).
I would like the truck to take off quick and do a decent cruising speed on the highway with passing power but will not be racing it. I will be doing some hauling with it on occasion but not anything major.

I will be putting in a new radiator and transmission cooler so those should not be issues.

Suggestions anyone?
Any good sources for an AOD tranny that will handle the torque this engine will create? For the most part this will be a daily driver with occasional duty pulling a trailer or hauling the motorcycles around.

Thanks.

 

the aod is a one piece trans.if your 60 has a c4 someone put it in.

 

Can't help with the transmission, but to get the rear axle ratio, check for a tag or use the pinion/wheel turns ratio method. Jack up one side of the rear end and leave the other tire on the ground. Put the transmission in neutral. Put a chalk (or other) mark on the jacked up tire, and another mark on the pinion yoke (or driveshaft). Rotate the tire 10 turns and count the pinion revolutions as you go. The formula is:

Axle Ratio = 2 * Pinion Revolutions / Wheel Revolutions

For 10 wheel revolutions, all you have to do is divide the pinion revolutions by 5 to get the axle ratio.

 

Oh, it was definitely added in. They also made it a floor shift rather than column.
The engine had been swapped out to a 300ci 6cyl and the C4 tranny.
I had assumed they also swapped the axle but recently learned that the 9" was standard on this truck so it might be original.

 

It will take me a while to be able to do that.
At the moment the truck is in the back yard buried in snow and has no engine.

I have an 85 Crown Vic AOD tranny and two old 302 engines. I plan on using those to see how well I can get that combo to line up in the engine compartment and use the 85 Vic tranny cross member to support it.
It is either that or I have to shorten the driveshaft to accomodate the extra length of the AOD but there is benefit if I can move the engine forward anyway. Plenty of clearance in the front as long as there is enough room to raise the tranny/engine the little bit I need to clear the front crossmember.

Any idea on what the length difference is between a C4 and the AOD?
I know I have seen it posted here previously but have not been able to find it searching.

 

I just finished putting the above setup from a '90 Crown Vic in my 1950 F1 using MII IFS

I can get you measurements if needed, I know that I had to remove existing cross member and fabricate rear cross member to mount tranny, due to length of setup.

I used motor mounts from TCI but fabricated mount brackets to frame due to steering linkage clearances. I also offset the engine by 1 1/2" to passenger side to accomodate exhaust manifold, steering clearance.

I shorted the Crown Vic driveshaft by 2 " and have 5 degree slope on tailshaft and rear pinion flange.

I haven't mounted rad support but I estimated I will not have clearance to mount mechanical fan from 302 and will go with electric if required.

 

I did a search for the AOD's length and found this. It might help you. C-4 to AOD swap

 

Wow, great info. Thanks.
It brings up MORE questions of course but better now than later right?

I will have to figure out what to use for a converter and TV link. The flexplate should not be hard to get. Since I will be getting a new block I would want the 50 ounce 164 tooth flexplate which should be pretty much any HO 302 equipped vehicle with AOD from 1981 up.

The big question is will the shaft fit. I do not know if the shaft will have the right number of splines. The lengths vary as well right?

More things I will have to investigate.
From what the article said though the AOD and C4 should only be about 1/2" different in length. The only thing I may have to move is the tranny mount which I was going to do anyway. Currently it is a rough cut steel plate going across the frame so....

Thanks.

 

I hope to eventually go with a MII suspension but my projects are time and cost limited so I am phasing them in.
My truck is a 60 so I suspect the cross members and cab clearances are going to be quite different so photos may not help except possibly to show how you hooked up the TV link?

I have a LOT of room towards the front of the truck so the radiator should not be a problem. I will eventually probably go with an electric fan anyway but should still have the option.

Was it necessary to shorten the shaft those 2" or did it just allow for a better placement of your engine? Will the existing shaft match the splines in the transmission input shaft?

I have the transmission mount crossmember from the 85 Crown Victoria and think it will fit nicely between the rails. Just have to determine if I have to shim it any higher or lower to get the right height for the transmission but will not know that until I get one into the truck and held in place for viewing.

I have clearance problems with the exhaust manifold clearing the steering shaft. I plan to get around that by using some center exit headers rather than the rear exit ones from the Crown Vic.

 

The Crown Vic drive shaft was shortened , based on the distance between tailshaft and companion flange approx 56" in my case. I pushed the 302 as close to firewall as I could for fan clearances.

The 302 and AOD were out of the same donor so no problem with drive shaft spline count,or flexplate. Only mod was universal yoke changed to mate up with 2000 Explorer 3:73 rearend.

My cross member from CV was too wide for the F1 frame and height offset was not right so I fabbed one, probably have picture if required. I believe it was approx 3 1/4" below bottom of frame rail

Tom

 

So I am probably going to need a different yoke at the very least.
This gets hairier by the minute.
I would rather push the engine forward than shorten the driveshaft as I need to compensate for other clearances. Nothing to do but drop in an engine and AOD tranny to see how they fit I guess. Luckily I have an AOD laying around.
Not good enough to use but certainly good enough to check clearances with and get my mounts all in place before ordering a new tranny.
I have this one big shot where I will have a combination of funds from tax returns, work bonus and cash from my refinancing and I want to get as far along this project as I can before I run out of money.

I should have plenty of clearance for the fan up front but will have to check that too. Since the original engine was a straight six the V8 fits in there with a good deal of extra space.

Thanks.

 

The AOD comes with two different length tailhousings. Some pickups and lincolns use a tailshaft about 1 inch longer. There are also two different outside diameters on the slip yoke that goes into the trans. The heavy duty has a thicker wall thickness and therefore a larger outside diameter. Another difference to look our for is the fact that some of the slip yokes have a an inside seal or boss of some sort. The splines will fit, but will not allow a full stroke into the trans. Many C-4 slip yokes will work, but not all on all AOD Thats the bad news. The good news is that you have an AOD already in your possession. If you rebuild or use your current AOD you already have the correct slip yoke. You also have a C-4 slip that will probably fit.If the driveshaft uses a different universal joint than the slip yoke, go to a good parts store or truck repair facility. They have cross reference books that will specify a universal joint that fits the slip yoke on one side and your driveshaft on the other. Lokar sells the TV (or "kickdown") linkage you need. An unsolicited warning: get your TV linkage set up correctly before driving the truck. An improper adjustment will burn up you trans for sure in a VERY short distance. Another piece of unsolicited advice. The AOD will drop your RPMs by 1/3 in OD. Therefore a 4.11 ratio becomes about a 2.78. Good luck, it is a lot of money and work, but it is worth it.

 

I do not know of any good tranny shops around here to do the rebuild.
I was considering buying a rebuilt heavy duty one online but have not thoroughly researched it yet.

I might bite the bullet and order a new driveshaft with the appropriate yoke and joints for the axle/transmission and then I can determine what length I want it to be before ordering. I will know more when I can drag truck out of the back yard and inspect what is there more closely.
I would really like at least the drivetrain to be as reliable as possible so the most I may have to worry about down the road is suspension and steering.
Those are future projects.
I have kind of burned out on used parts and constant breakdowns. I enjoy the results a whole lot more than the work so...

I have to figure out what my rear axle ratio is, I have no clue what it might be. How do the ranges run? For instance is something like a 23 a lot lower end than 4:11? So that the truck will do better at slower speeds but not higher?
And if I had a low end range in the axle and go with the AOD will I end up with an OD that will not support the truck at a good cruising speed without constantly downshifting to get back up to speed?

If the truck will take off quick and provide a fair amount of passing power up around 75mph then I think I would be happy. The engine should be capable of producing much more than I will need so the rest is in the axle/tranny.
I do not need to race but I do not want it to be a dog on the highway either.

Thanks for the info.

 

Niteowl -

If you are determined to spend the money on a new or rebuilt AOD, so be it. I was very pleased with the rebuild I had done on my FMX by a local shop. It cost less than half of what a new/rebuilt one would cost and the shop was recommended by another rodder. Check around at local cruise nites and such and ask for referrals. Any place has a warrantee on their work nowadays.

On the gear ratio: If you have normal height tires/rims (P275/R50's on 15 inch, say), a 4:11 rear end with an AOD will give you a cruise final ratio of 2.75. That is a sweet place to be. You'll be able peel out from a light and cruise at around 2400 rpm at 70 mph. Very zippy around town with smooth (high mileage) cruising. The best of all worlds.

Go with an electric fan. I love mine.

I also believe that a better build sequence is to install the MII IFS first, then position the engine/tranny and headers around that setup. If you go with the stock front end (knowing you want to change it later) you will be redoing some stuff. The MII is less likely to cause interference with headers, steering, etc than some other setups, but you will need new motor mounts when you make that change, even if you kept the engine location the same.

Definitely go with a custom-built driveshaft. After everything is positioned and swell, just have the shop make up one that is exactly the correct length, with the proper yokes, new universals and IS BALANCED! Mine cost $250 complete.

It sounds like you have a lot of ideas, but not a very finite plan. I would suggest establishing a solid logical plan and trying to stick with it. Even though all hot rod budgets are bogus by the end of it all, good planning saves a fortune in both money and time.

My 2 cents...

 

I can look around but there is not much in the area. One of the trannies I have have a broken mount but the other may be OK. Both were very high mileage. Also, pairing it up with a high torque high HP motor I need to know it was built for greater strength than original.

Hopefully we will get some warm weather here soon and the cruise nights will start back up. Stuff in the area is really small though.

I need to get the truck running and usable and just will not have the time and money it would take to get the suspension done yet so I have to go with smaller projects that can lead up to where I want to be. If I started the suspension I wouldnt be able to do the engine until next year and the truck would not be driveable.

My plan is: Get it running and driveable. Fix the cab mounts so the cab and fenders line up before starting any other bodywork. Try and relocate the gas tank under the bed. Possibly swap the bed to a stepside (my brother may have one for me and it would go well with the gas tank swap timing).
Front suspension with power rack. Hey, I used to drive a Mustang II and I really liked the handling.

Once all that is done I will think about paint. My goal though is to keep the truck driveable as much as possible so I do not have to get another vehicle and spend the money I could have put into the truck. I have my motorcycle to fall back on too but at my age riding in the rain is just a pain in the duff.
New England gets really cold too.