What is needed besides the heads themselves to upgrade a 1999 V-10 to the PI version? Computer changes? Will my Banks headers still fit? I have cheap labor at my disposal - $20/hour.

 

More than you want to get into as 1. Ford does a poor job of listing all the associated parts and programs. 2 unless you have a very inexpensive "donor" late model many of the assemblys will not be available from Ford even if you know exactly each of the differences.

They changed the fuel system, exhaust system, placement of some sensors and interconnectors on the engine, and of course the PCM is upgraded. These are very complicated motors now adays.

I believe if you blew up a 99 motor in 2002 still in warranty Ford would replace it with the 99 version. And if none available in stock they would rebuild your even if it required a block. But they will not do an update install. Even if the 2002 motor was labor and oparts cheaper...that is to say they know all the electrics that are integral to the truck and it is not cost effective for Ford to do it.

Even if I had a perfect set of 2002 running gear for free on a trashed truck and a solid 99 truck with a weak motor I would not try it. I have the shop and tools, and my labor is free to me.

Not saying it can not be done... but it requires you to know more than any dealer tech does. Of course knowing that much is not hard... sorry cheap, shot but I am tired of clueless technicians when I am cross country traveling (aint that where we all have trouble?)

 

Thanks - way more than i want to get into for 35hp and 15 ft lbs.

 

Exactly! Get a used nitrous system and play when the ricers are near!

 

It seems as though people are doing it on the 5.4L engines with it not being overly difficult so I don't see why it would be so hard on the V-10's since they're the same engine only with 2 more cylinders. I also have reason to beleive if you buy cylinder heads from Ford for a 99 you'd get the newer design. (Certainly not positive on that one though) You might want to check out the 5.4L engine forum at this site and check out http://forums.modulardepot.com If you ever decide to try it, be sure to keep us informed.

 

J.C.

If the only difference from 99 to 2001 was that the PI heads had a few more threads and that was all that was changed you would be right. However that is NOT the case.

There are a series of changes that were required to gain the extra HP and Torque and get below emmisions requirements. Many of these components are very expensive. Including about $1500 just for the heads and that is before you refurb all the valve train and the labor to do that. I have no Idea but I bet two cams, the chains, the followers and all the valves and springs runs into some serious cash and I would never consider reusing the original old 99 parts.

I am an aircraft elecrtician and avionics geek. As well as a seasoned mechanic. I know my way around schematics. The Ford electrics are very extensive, very precise, and in my experiance Ford does a very poor job of keeping them current. I am always chasing some circuit for this or that where the "book" says circuit 57 blue with white tracer. Sorry, not on my truck, the blue with white tracer is a totally different circuit than the "book" says. This kind of grief will have you chasing wires for weeks on a major swap unless you took the entire vehicle apart down to the bare shell and frame and installed the entire late model wireing, black boxes, fuel system, barke system, sensors, actuators, and the entire new instrument clusted to go with the now up graded motor.

I see this as costing over $5000 and I believe if a person had a good running 1999 sold and added the $5000 to that you can step up to the newer version for about even money and a LOT less headaches and pain.

 

Why not just port and polish the heads and intake on your current motor? That and a chip would maybe net the same amount of power or more.

 

I believe he asked if he could change his truck over to the pi heads, not rebuild the engine with every update ford as done to it in the last 6 years. Since you have never tried it and don't know I don't understand how you can tell everyone it is impossible and will cost millions of $$. As I have stated, I have read about people upgrading to the new pi heads on the 5.4l with it not being overly difficult. I don't see why the V-10 would be any different. You can get the new pi heads with valves from Ford for under $2000 for the pair and new camshafts for under $300.
Now, if he asked about making all the others changes Ford did when they switched over to the pi heads there would be a few other things to change out but again, I don't think any of them were to earth shattering. I can't say I know all of the things that were changed but I do know they also switched over to plastic intake manifolds and isn't that also when they changed the funny looking Y-pipe?

 

All you need are the heads, cams, and intake manifold from a PI engine. The harness is an unnecessary piece to swap. It's just like the 96-98 mustang guys that swap 99+ GT heads and intakes onto their cars. That's all you need. Heck, the mustang guys even use their coil pack ignition on the PI heads.

 

What again would be ther reason for this swap? Do you just want the shiny new heads or are you looking for the 310 HP that these heads were a SMALL part of?

Hey no skin off my butt... get a set and bolt them up. Hell its only money and everybody knows $2500 for a few extra HP is money well spent ...right? That is if the heads alone would get you some predictable amount of gain.

Are you sure Ford has the same liter per minuet injectors in the PI motor?

Is it the same fuel pump and rating?

Humm... I don't know either, but I do know the two PCMs are different part numbers and program codes.

I do know that the 99 used water temp to the PCM and the late models use Cylinder head temp as the input.

And I know one local owner here who had 1999 V10 truck that needed replacement motor and asked Ford for the 2002 version and was told no. He offered to offset any increased costs. The regional rep said it was not a money issue but that the 2002 motor would not direct swap in.

He and I did a side by side between his 99 and my 2001. I told him I see too many obvious changes to think it would be an easy junk yard MOTOR swap.

No I do not know all the parts that Ford used to make the 310 HP V10 motors. I answered from the experiance that I have from tearing down Ford motors since 1968. IN the early 80s the design changes from year to year as the engineers fought to get power up and emmissions down were pretty massive.... in fact they had so many various part numbers that Ford was forced to the Modular design of common rotating parts.

This helped Ford but realy did not do us any favor. So what that there are fewer rod, piston, ring, and valve part numbers. The dramaticaly increased the dependence on computer control. Early versions always had on going quality control and design changes to the external supporting hardware.

I also know that these new design motors are created to be fully integrated with the PowerTrain Control Module PCM. I also know that there is a seperate computer just for fuel injectors.

So if any of you who are carping at my reasoning to the initial question want to jump in and spend the money to morph a 1999 low powered V10 into its mid level cousin... have at it and good luck... with time patience and enough money any thing is possible.

Please read for comprehension I never said it could not be done.

 

I just thought that if the heads were the only difference I could do the swap easy enough. They are on ebay right now for $400. The engine has 114,000 miles on it but is like new. I would've done it for the 35 hp, but there are much easier ways to gain more than 35 hp. Someday it will be rebuilt and supercharged, but not right now - still in college.

 

You would need the intake due to the shape of the ports.

 

The intake manifold stays aluminum of the PI v10 right ???? Do you need to buy the black part that goes below the manifold or is that reusable from the non PI setup ??? I beleive this part is called the lower intake manifold, it's a hard to see part. Also the top manifold and TB part slap right on the PI manifold too ??

 

The manifold has upper and lower pieces. The upper piece, which is metal, has different port shapes in order to mate with PI heads. The lower manifold is metal on the 99 and plastic on newer models. I'm not sure about the ability to reuse it.

 

Fredvon4
I'll agree with you about spending all that money and time to switch to the new head design just to get an extra couple of hp would be silly but, if I had to replace a head for some reason I have every intentions of trying the new heads. I'd even ponder if I could get the new 3v heads to work. If someone things I'm nuts and stupid for trying it :shrugs: whatever. There's no question in my mind that it would be cheaper than upgrading to a new truck since the old truck would be worthless as a trade-in if it had a junk engine.