460 timing advance
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460 timing advance
I'm getting ready to rebuild a 1974 460 for a classic 1 ton 2 wheel drive pickup. I've been doing some research on the rebuild and I have read that the 460 can be advanced at the camshaft to create more performance. Can I purchase a timing chain and gear set that has multiple timing settings for the 460? What would be the recommended advance? I'm also looking for a recommendation on a cam for this bad boy. My plan for the rebuild is to stay pretty stock using a RV cam and headers this is also what my budget will allow. Would raising the compression a bit, since I'm putting in new pistons, be something to consider for added performance? In my reasearch I have read that 9 1/2 to 1 is about as far as I could go and still run on pump gas. Any other suggestions on my budget rebuild would be much appreciated. JM
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From: Ocala, Florida
Why don't you ask this question in the 385 Series- 370, 429, 460 engine forum. Check out www.compcams.com for a cam. Look at the XTREME ENERGY and XTREME 4x4 line of cams.
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I would recommend the Cloyes double rollor chain drive. Put it at the middle or zero setting and all should be well. The main thing is to stay away from some of the later timing sets that retarded the cam timing timing 4 degrees for emissions reasons.
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i think stock is enough for this motor, 8.5-1 unless you plan on serius performance. a good cam, intake, headers and a 750 holley would do you wonders. if you advance the cam you gain low end, and if you retard it you gain top end. all your doing by changing the cam timing is moving the rpm range in which you make the most power. so it depends on what you want. id leave at 0 degrees.
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When you get the cam you have decided on read the cam card carefully. You will find that it says what the cam is to be degreed too. Mine is 105 degrees and it is the second in the list of extreme 4X4 comp cams. Do it right and buy a degree kit, you will sleep better after the rebuild. You can get a muti groved crank gear from Cloes with eight settings on it. I'm running 10.25 compression on pump gas and with the timing right - no detination.
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timing valve lift 460
Thanks again for all the input on my budget 460 build. A few more questions reguards to the WTAGAS reply. So I get my RV cam and raise my compression to lets say 10 to 1. # 1 question would buying taller pistions or shaving the heads be the way to go? #2 I'm hoping I can still use the stock non adjustible rocker set up? #3 degreeing the cam I've never done it before is it something a somewhat compenent weekend mechanic can do. I'm sure some sort of directions come with the kit you mentioned? j marsh
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Have the block properly cleaned and checked to see if it needs to be bored for cylinder clean-up. The machine shop can help in the choice of pistons for the new bore size. Not knowing where it's at now you will probably be .030 to .060 over stock. Do not shave the heads! - this is where head and intake manifold bolts have missalignment problems and the gasket may not seal correctly. If the head is cut down making the cc volume less you can gain compresion but develop the bolt problem. If the head is cut you need to do the same on the manifold and there is a math calculation for milling the intake, don't go there if you can help it.
You must have d3 heads being none adjustable. The kit to make them adjustable is like $80.00 from comp cams. It's worth it for the ease of adjustment, I've used it.
The kit to degree a cam comes with a video that's real easy to follow and full instructions. Get a crank socket (about $8.00) to turn the crank with, don't rely on turning by the damper bolt.
This all simple, don't rush, do the block and rotating assembly right.
You must have d3 heads being none adjustable. The kit to make them adjustable is like $80.00 from comp cams. It's worth it for the ease of adjustment, I've used it.
The kit to degree a cam comes with a video that's real easy to follow and full instructions. Get a crank socket (about $8.00) to turn the crank with, don't rely on turning by the damper bolt.
This all simple, don't rush, do the block and rotating assembly right.
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Cam timing in the 460s over the years
I decided to investigate the whole issue of which timing sets fit which years and to understand the differences. There is a lot of ignorance and misinformation out there (including what Ford dealers tell you)! Here is what I have found after contacting many of the manufacturers.
The clearest explanation came from Wayne Gray at Cloyes (I told him I would post it): "1968 to 1972 429/460CID engines were factory TDC. 1973 to about 1985 engines were 8 degree factory retarded at the crank sprocket. The Cloyes 9-3122 (and 9-1122) is TDC. The 9-3130 (and 9-1130) is 8 degree retard. Ford went back to TDC in 1986 at the factory. Everyone who knows the difference in the sets uses the TDC set on all years!!!" Any of the timing sets (cam gears, chains and crank sprockets) will fit any of the years, 1968 to present. The Cloyes catalog information (available on the web) is very clear.
I also give credit to Comp Cams, SA Gear, Dynagear, PBM, Rollmaster and Crane for their input.
If anyone disagrees or has something to add, please post!
Jim
The clearest explanation came from Wayne Gray at Cloyes (I told him I would post it): "1968 to 1972 429/460CID engines were factory TDC. 1973 to about 1985 engines were 8 degree factory retarded at the crank sprocket. The Cloyes 9-3122 (and 9-1122) is TDC. The 9-3130 (and 9-1130) is 8 degree retard. Ford went back to TDC in 1986 at the factory. Everyone who knows the difference in the sets uses the TDC set on all years!!!" Any of the timing sets (cam gears, chains and crank sprockets) will fit any of the years, 1968 to present. The Cloyes catalog information (available on the web) is very clear.
I also give credit to Comp Cams, SA Gear, Dynagear, PBM, Rollmaster and Crane for their input.
If anyone disagrees or has something to add, please post!
Jim
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