Shocks
Monroe also makes a complete line of adjustable shocks. As with those previously mentioned they come in different configurations, styles, and price ranges.

Chuck

Keep beating the basics in, once the basics ae down, then the discussion can really begin.

 

Not a problem, I know I asked a lot of questions on the audio forum and got impatient at times because I needed to make a purchasing decision in time for Xmas myself. Unless we get exceptionally busy at work today I'll finish (for the moment) with shocks today, then on to sways. Keep asking questions tho, even if I don't answer that moment, it tells me what I need to cover in other installments. I hope y'all are getting the idea that you need to always thing of suspension and steering as an interrelated and interdependent system not individual components.

 

[QUOTE=AXracer] Keep asking questions tho, QUOTE]

I need to know if my ackerman and unsprung weight is ok.


Just kidding!!


You're doing a great job.Very interesting and informative.


Carry On!!

 

The rest of the SHOCKing story:

First a correction to something I said earlier. A normal shock is stiffer in REBOUND than in compression, the correct reason being that in compression the shock is controlling the movement of the UNSPRUNG weight (the weight of all the components that are NOT supported by the springs) as it is being driven upwards by a bump in the road but in rebound it is controlling both the unsprung and sprung weight (basically the weight of the entire vehicle and cargo) as they both come back down towards the roadway afterwards. Sorry about that!

So far we’ve talked about how shocks influence RIDE by damping the spring oscillations, but that’s only part of the role they play, they also influence the HANDLING of the vehicle by controlling weight transfer. As soon as we turn the steering wheel while driving down the road, a new force is applied, centrifugal force. That force acts primarily upon the sprung weight of the vehicle to try and push it towards the outside of the turn. The higher the vertical center of gravity of the vehicle the more pronounced the effect of that force will be. If we didn’t do something to control that weight transfer the body would tip to the outside and then return past the at rest point, due to momentum and the outside springs pushing back, and would continue to rock back and forth down the road like a drunk after an all night binge! Dramamine anyone? Anyone who has ridden in a stagecoach knows that feeling intimately! I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that stagecoaches were the first vehicles equipped with barf bags! but I digress...

Since the body roll adds weight to the outside wheels and removes it from the inside ones it also compresses the suspension on the outside and extends the inside similar to the bump in the road did, only side to side instead of up and down. Since the shock also operates when the spring changes length we can use the shock to damp the rolling motion as well especially on the compressing side, and that’s exactly what is done. The weight transfer is going to happen no matter what, but we can control how quickly it happens. The more weight transfer force you transfer from the body to the wheel through the shock the harder that wheel presses against the pavement and the more traction and therefore resistance to sliding that tire will have. This allows a harder turn without experiencing what is called PUSH or UNDERSTEER where the front tires lose traction and the vehicle wants to keep going straight rather than turning. The shocks can also have a similar but lesser effect on dive and squat when we quickly brake or accelerate.

OK, then all we need is a stiff enough set of shocks to resist body roll and we can race at Watkins Glen or Daytona. Whoa down there pardner! If you’ve been following closely up until now you’ll be smelling a rat... , and you’re right! We overlooked one small detail: Shocks only work while the suspension is in motion!!! If the turn is long enough the suspension will reach equilibrium with the centrifugal force and there will be no more appreciable suspension movement, in racing we call that "taking a set", taking away any roll dampening effect by the shocks. UH OH!!! Now the body slowly keeps rolling, until the inside wheels lift and we are doing a Joey Chitwood up on two wheels or worse looking at the world sideways or upside down. NOT GOOD for the paint job or the underwear.

So if the shocks control the weight transfer only at TURN IN, how do we control the STEADY STATE roll rate, you ask? That’s the job of the next major component to be discussed, the SWAY BAR!!!

Stay tuned to this topic for the next fascinating installment...

Meanwhile KEEP THE SHINY SIDE UP!

 

And the major differences between the multitude of available shocks is? Do I want gas, hydraulic, air, combo, adjustable valving? Are there any shock types you recommend I avoid for a street driven Effie. You might point out that shocks don't affect ride height one bit (unless air shocks). Do I really care how big the shock piston is? Will Niolon ever really even need shocks? Or should he just buy a stereo and a battery.

 

John and you both should get Air Shocks, You to give youself more adjustment for your Mopar and John can hook his up to the compressor to get the Garage drive down pat. Also John shouldn't buy a battery to run his Stereo, just a converter from 110V.

On the newer High end vehicles the shocks are the major player in the Active Suspension Systems. A few years back I did some testing at the NTSB site in Marysville OH with a proto type system on an Armoured Limo, it was interesting what an active suspension could do to a 9300lb Caddy.

 

Bottom line on shocks:
There are a lot of shocks out there, and most of the biggest mass mechandised name brands aren't worth spending money on. They spend their money on advertising and fancy logos, rather than putting quality parts inside to make them last more than 20-30K miles. Their most expensive shocks aren't any better than their cheapest ones. Might as well buy the cheapest or no name units.
The racers know the difference a quality shock makes. I'd say that if you go with a brand that the racers use and a unit designed for your application (as opposed to one for the car your suspension parts came from, or worse yet came WITH them from the salvage yard ) The good companies have technicians that are more than willing to help you figure out what's best for you, that's what they get paid to do! Once you find out and get the part #'s I can help you get them for the best price (Koni or Bilstein at least). Gas shocks are hydraulic shocks, they just have the oil pressurized with gas or have a bag of gas above the oil. Since oil cannot be compressed but gas can be the gas adds a little extra give or spring to the shock for a little smoother ride on bumpy roads. AXers have their shocks degassed so they have one predictable spring. If you push in the shaft on a new shock and it extends back out by itself they are gas shocks.
Gas shocks can increase the ride height a small amount.
Air shocks are shocks with adjustable air bag springs in them to assist the main springs when the occasion arises that you need to carry a heavy load or pull a large trailer. If you need to run more than minimum pressure in them with no load, you need heavier springs, not air shocks. Don't confuse their harder ride at increasing pressures with added valving stiffness, they're still the same basic shock inside. Shock piston size doesn't matter (except for off road use) if the shock is well designed for the application it will have the proper size piston. Bigger pistons need bigger holes thru them to give the same damping, bigger holes flow more oil which can heat the oil quicker and also promote foaming.

 

Yep, some cars like the Corvette ZO7 have electronic shocks where sensors measure the piston speed and the oil has magnetic particles suspended in it that when surrounded by a magnetic field changes the density of the oil, hence nearly instantaniously changing the valving to match the conditions.

 

"Gas shocks can increase the ride height a small amount."

How? I haven't seen a gas shock I couldn't fully compress with one hand. Granted, it takes a few seconds.

I would be interested in an adjustable Koni. (and open to other brand you suggest) My favorite shocks are the red ones. Your work isn't done here just yet AX. Application is a 76-80 Volare at slightly less than factory ride height. Less about one inch in length would work. I can take it off and measure it. But it's stock as can be. Just need one that will adjust a bit stiffer than stock. You're probably shaking your head now, but I don't know how else to describe valving. Stock doesn't get it done. I just need the ability to adjust somewhat firmer in the front. And of course I intend to upgrade the sway bar too. I'll have to measure the rear shocks. I could ship a rear shock for inspection if necessary.

And I agree with your assessment of mass marketed shocks. My Bronco eats Monroe Sensatracs for lunch. And it's a dual front shock configuration. Not talking about offroading either. I am not a bit impressed.

 

Ouch, I just saw retail price for a Koni. I guess I better have a real good understanding before I would drop that kind of cash. Can you explain what the valving ratios mean? 90/10, 70/30 etc. I assume the first number is compression? Second rebound? For comparison, what ratios are typically used for a typical $25 Monroe street shock? vs the ratio an autocross vehicle that still retains some driving comfort might use. How adjustable is an adjustable shock like a Koni?

 

NO NO! Those are drag racing competition shocks not suited for street use unless you want to look at the sky every time you take off from a traffic lite. Go to www.koni-na.com and look for their tech support # . Give them a call and talk to Lee Grimes or who ever answers (there are 3 shock techs there and they all know their sh**!) Explain in detail exactly what you've got and ask for their recommendations. You can't buy a shock for a hybrid application like yours out of a catalog, they just don't list them that way. Thru my many years of experience I have always found that the best way to buy parts is to contact the manufacturer directly and ask for their recommendations, then take their advice even if I source my purchase from a distributor or ?, after all they know their product best and it's in their best interest to be sure it works the way I want it to. Anyhow, get their recommendations and part#s.
A good friend of ours is their main distributor and I can get anything they sell thru him. Koni yellows are in the 150-175.00 range, and well worth it, you get what you pay for.

PS: yours wont be anywhere near what we paid for the totally custom built double adjustable set on our Celi (the front struts had to totally custom built since they are also the upper suspension member) at just >2600.00!

 

"NO NO! Those are drag racing competition shocks not suited for street use unless you want to look at the sky every time you take off from a traffic lite."

You're reading into my post AX. I know those are drag shocks. Oddly enough, I found the numbers in a drag racing section of a Summit catalog. I posted those numbers so you could explain them to me. I figured the radical drag shock ratios would make it easier to explain. Because many of us here understand approximately what a drag shock should act like for good weight transfer on the launch, I'm just unclear what the numbers mean. I'm not calling Koni until I can carry on an intelligent conversation with them. I didn't make you call Alpine last week now did I? No hurry at all AX, but I think we have more shock learnin' to do here. You can't end this with call up a tech line and ask them to hook me up. That may work fine at Koni, but it will get you burned with a lot of manufacturers.

 

[QUOTE=AXracer]NO NO! Those are drag racing competition shocks not suited for street use unless you want to look at the sky every time you take off from a traffic lite.QUOTE]


Ax, not with a 302 in it!!!

 

Ok you asked for it. a 90-10 shock is a special very stifly valved drag racing shock with 90% resistance in the compression direction and 10% resistance in the rebound or extension direction. This allows the front of the car to rise very quickly and easily, but then holds the front up by not allowing the shock to recompress. A 70-30 shock might be used in the rear or in the front where you didn't want the front to come up as quickly. Note that these are percentages and have nothing to do with the actual valving or overall stiffness of the shock. The actual stiffness of a shock is dependent on the valving and the piston speed and therefore varies from moment to moment. Koni and the NASCAR shock specialists can measure the actual stiffness on an expensive computerized tester called a shock dyno that measures the resistance while the machine moves the shock piston at different speeds and translates it into a graph, but that graph would mean little to you and I. That's why you need to talk to Lee or someone at Koni, they will want to know the type of suspension, the spring rate if you know it, the front and rear weights, the mounting arrangement on each end of the shock (ring, pin) the distance between the mounting points at rest, the travel distance in each direction from rest (measured without a shock attached) and the type of driving you'll be doing. (highway, racing/type, towing, carrying heavy loads, and then they will tell you which of their shocks will work best for you and or if a specially built/valved shock is required. This is EXACTLY what I do and all the racers who are not shock engineers do. These guys travel all the major racing circuits providing FREE tech support, repair and revalving at the events. they dyno your shocks before and after they work on them, so you can be assured that they have/have not changed the valving depending on which you wanted or can match a new set to a set you are happy with. Bottom line: they know what works and what doesn't and their advice is usually spot on. They will never rip you off, I guarantee it. The numbers on the drag shocks are there simply because the drag racers want them so they are able to tell the fronts from the rears (evidently many drag racers are as dumb as a grape), there are no numbers on any other shocks, and they won't ask you for or give you any except series and part #s.
I know what happens to the handling of our car when we change the available adjustments one way or the other from testing, but I have no idea what their actual valving is, nor would I know how to specify it.

 

and don`t even think about driving drag-shocks on the street. friend of mine totaled a 69 `firebird that way...